The VO Meter, Measuring Your Voice Over Progress. Hello, everybody, and welcome to Episode 7 of The VO Meter.
Measuring Your Voice Over Progress.
I’m Paul Stefano.
And I’m Sean Daeley.
How are you today, Sean?
I’m okay. I’m getting over a flu or some kind of respiratory bug. My nephew, who’s about a year old now, he and his mom were sick the last time we visited.
Eventually, my dad got sick, and he passed it on to me. And, of course, by upper respiratory, I mean affecting my voice and my chest. So I haven’t really been able to do any serious auditioning in projects for almost two weeks.
It’s pretty frustrating.
Oh, that’s a bummer. I’m actually suffering a bit myself. My youngest son was really sick for a few days, and I picked up a trace of it.
I can’t tell if it’s getting worse or getting better. Either way, it’s not good.
Yeah, you just get that sense that something’s wrong, but you don’t know exactly what. And you’re like, do I need to go to the doctor?
I was in a tough spot because I had two books I was supposed to start, and I put them both off because I don’t want to start a book, an audio book, where my voice is bad. But it’s not bad enough where I’m stopping everything, so I’m doing auditions for commercial stuff and other jobs, but I didn’t want to start a book that’s sounding crappy and then have to come back and redo it.
Absolutely, because like you said, even if your voice didn’t sound bad, it probably won’t sound like you naturally do. So that’s consistency issues right there. So it’s probably wise to put those off until you’re feeling better.
So what’s been going on with you, Voice Over wise?
There have actually been some things. Haven’t just been sitting on my laurels as I recuperate, but I set up a new booth in my house. Yeah, you actually know what it is.
It’s actually my old booth, which was sort of a, to take your phrase, a Franken booth in a way. I actually got a sort of prefab frame, excuse me, I got a prefab material for it from Vocal Booth to Go. It was their hanging acoustic vocal booth, which is originally meant to be suspended by like a strong cable.
That wasn’t very practical for my house. So we just kind of, we went to the hardware store and got some PVC pipe and some connectors and made a frame for it. And now I have two places that I can record.
So depending on who’s out and about and which room is available. So I’m really happy about that. And what about you?
Well, I haven’t done any changes to my booth, shockingly, but I did try and focus on some performance things. I almost said performance issues. Ba-dum-bum, pssh.
Oh, ho-yo.
But I met virtually with Everett Oliver, who you can find at myboothdirector.com. He’s a former studio booth director for auditions for some big studios and agencies. And now has this consulting business where he’ll actually let you meet with him over the phone or video and talk you through an audition.
It’s a great, great service. Well, I should say, it sounds like a great service. So far, I’ve only had the initial consultation.
So what he does is meets with you to talk about just your life in general, where you come from, what sort of training you had, what your goals and dreams are. So he sort of gets a feel for you before he starts giving you directions because it feels like he needs to get to know you before he actually works with you. So I had that first session, and little unexpected, he told me basically I suck.
Oh no.
No, he wasn’t that mean. If you’ve seen any interviews with Everett, he is very upfront.
He’s no nonsense.
Yeah, he’s no nonsense, but he was actually much more diplomatic in person. Well, he asked me, how many acting classes have you taken? And I said, zero.
And he said, all right, you need to take some acting classes. Come back and see me after that, more or less. We talked about how I’m represented by several agencies and I get auditions from them and it’s not going to stop.
And it would be a bad idea to not do the auditions while I was doing some training. So he did say that if I want to work with them on some auditions I get from agencies, definitely dial them up. But priorities should be some additional training.
And I can’t disagree with that at all. I mean, everyone tells you that it’s voice acting, right? We call ourselves voice actors.
So you should really have some acting training.
That’s a really good point because I feel like over the last couple of months, I’ve kind of moved away from regular training sessions, either with like group classes or my own studies, whether it’s just reading voiceover articles or just generic research and stuff like that. But since I’ve been sick, I’m like, well, I can’t voice anything. So I’ve kind of been going back to that.
And like, it is really helpful. It’s very important to kind of gauge your skills where you’re at. And if you need improvement, taking acting classes and where are you taking them actually?
Oh, you’re asking me? Yeah, I actually did take Everett’s advice right away. He said a good place to look is the local community college.
So I did that. I signed up for a class that starts on Valentine’s Day. Hopefully my wife’s not mad that that’s what I’ll be doing in lieu of a dinner date.
But I’m gonna start with the local community college, take an intro to acting class there and see how that goes and maybe do some more. It’s really, really convenient because it’s right up the street for me. It’s a pretty good program for what I understand.
I know that the director works with a friend of mine who’s a stage manager for a local theater troupe and he runs this theater troupe along with the program at the community college. So it should be a pretty good program.
That’s great. And like you said, community classes are a great way to inexpensively learn a skill, whether it be acting or even some of the other areas of voiceover, like the business aspects, like a marketing class or even like a carpentry class if you want to get into building your own booth. So there’s like community colleges are a great resource.
Yeah, I don’t have any affiliation to this particular school, so I’ll just tell you the acting class is 90 bucks, which is fantastic. Can’t beat that.
Yeah, that’s amazing. Like how long does it go? Is it several week course?
It’s, I can’t do math, but it’s January, I mean, February 14th, Valentine’s Day until April like ninth or something. So, Oh, wow. It’s a long class.
A little over two months. Yeah.
Yeah, it should be a good experience.
Wonderful.
And then the other thing I did is signed back up with Sean Pratt on audio book training because I had gotten about a third of the way through his program and then took a hiatus because I was just too busy. And Sean’s great about doing that, rescheduling, adjusting to your needs. So I was able to contact him and squeeze back in on his schedule.
I start back up with him Friday the eighth.
Very cool. Speaking of it, I’ve actually had to postpone some sessions just because of this stupid virus. Because he gives you, depending on where you’re at in your career, you can have a pretty long list of homework.
Because for me, I’m pretty much just a blank slate. I hooked up with him because I wanted to get some demos on my Audible site and to really dive in head first. And since so many of my assignments were performance-based, I had to put them all off because I’m not there.
And it is frustrating because you want to give your best, and if you can’t, you don’t. Or you shouldn’t, I should say.
Yeah, his homework is serious stuff. If you’re doing it right and you actually put the effort in, it can take a while.
They’re enjoyable assignments, though. I was an English major in college, and so it’s a lot of critical analysis of text and stuff like that. And I’m like, I’m in my element.
Yeah, it can be fun, too. Is there anything else going on in your world?
Well, like I said, since I can’t perform so much, I’m trying to figure out other ways to occupy my time. And so I’ve got some new YouTube video ideas in the works. If you follow me on my YouTube channel, I like to do gear reviews and just sort of going over different voiceover equipment and what you might need and what you might not.
Like I mentioned, I built a new booth. And since this is like I’ve gotten a lot of questions about my booth because people really like how it looks and how it sounds. I decided to make a video showing you exactly how I made mine so you can make one exactly like it or make your own custom version.
And so there’s that one. I’ve got a few interface videos coming up. So we have review videos for the Audient ID4, which is a great little single channel interface that’s good for travel or sort of a starter interface.
And then we got what I’m using right now, the SPL CREON, which is sort of this really beefy interface with a lot of inputs and outputs, similar to say the Audient ID22, but it’s got sort of different flavor preamps and it’s got some unique features of its own. So I’m really happy about that. And then since I have so many interfaces of various feature sets and price ranges, I figured I’d do a sort of comparison video.
So people who might be buying a new interface or an interface for the first time can really kind of decide what features they’re actually looking for and what they really need for where they’re at in their career. So that’s pretty much where I’m at.
So that’s actually a good segue into our next segment. We’re going to get very shortly to our Agent Roundtable discussion with our wonderful guests. But first, it’s time to look at this week’s Questionable Gear Purchase.
So I’ll start, and this week or this break in between episodes is a little different. I actually sort of regressed and went backwards in thinking. I got rid of all the mics I have, except for the AT2020 by Audio Technica.
What about the 897?
Yeah, I got rid of that too.
Why?
The reason for it is I was popping it like crazy, and I couldn’t move back far enough in the booth because I work in a really small space. It’s a four-by-four whisper room, and it’s a pretty long mic, and there was just no more room to back up from it, so there was no way to stop the popping, really.
Did you see that one… They had that pop filter from the Hook Studios that you can put right on the barrel of the shotgun, so it doesn’t really add any length.
Well, I was already using a windscreen on it, and I tried some of the generic pop filters I have in front of that, too, and I was still popping it, which almost never happens to me. So I knew it was just the space and the distance between the mic. So what I did was sort of go back to basics.
The AT2020 was the first mic I ever had, and I had the USB version that I was using for audiobooks, and it sounded really good. So I put it up on the standing part of my booth where I had the shotgun, and it still sounded really good. Actually, probably better.
And I’ve gotten compliments over the last year or so from some colleagues who have said, that mic sounds good on you. Probably the best I’ve ever heard you sound. So-
And is that what you’re using right now?
Yeah, that’s what I’m using right now.
It sounds good. Sounds like you.
I agree. So I’m taking it old school. Going back to basics, I’m using both AT2020s, in fact.
One XLR that I’m talking on now, and I’m still using the USB version for audiobooks. And it’s the added benefit of having the same sound for all the work I do. And I can also take the USB version with me if I have to travel.
Just pull it off the stand, have my tablet, my Windows tablet with me, and I’m good to go to record.
Oh, cool.
So that’s the plan.
Because there are numerous versions of, there’s at least three versions of the USB one. Which one did you get?
I have the Plus. So it’s the one with the headphone monitoring.
Okay, that sounds like it’s the best. I mean, headphone monitoring is one that you want, like is a feature that you would like to look for in a lot of USB mics. That just means that you can listen to yourself as you record by plugging your headphones into the mic.
It’s something you can do with any interface mic combo, but not all USB mics have that feature. So it’s a useful one to have, especially if you’re doing audio books and you might need to like do punch and roll or something like that, or you’re being live directed, which I’ve done that in the past with a Blue Yeti, which was a really useful feature to have.
Yeah, so you can use the interface or the converter in there to actually be a phone patch. Is that what you’re saying?
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, it’s a great feature too, you’re right. So yeah, that’s where I am now. If you want to read the whole story, go to my blog, it’s www.paulstefano.com/blog, and I explain the whole method to my madness and how I came about to that decision.
Very cool. I’ll have to check that out, because I mean, it’d be interesting to hear his perspective because I’ve sort of been like handholding him through, or like, no, not handholding, he doesn’t need that, but supporting him through his journey and his constant revolving door of mic lockers.
Yeah, exactly.
That’s great. But I mean, as I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I love that you’re willing to try anything and you don’t sit on your laurels too long before you try something or revisit something, so.
Yeah, that’s my MO for sure.
Mm-hmm.
Me, I’m just lucky that I have four mics that sound good.
So any questionable purchases or actual good purchases this week for you?
I think I lucked out, okay? Because I’ve pretty much gotten all of the big purchases and stuff that I need, and so I focused on things that you might not think about immediately, but could kind of help you out in like whether it be workflow or peace of mind, stuff like that. One thing that I got that I’m really happy about are it’s what’s called a quick release mic adapter.
Yeah, so I got these on the recommendation of James Arnold Taylor. He’s one of my favorite voice actors, an incredible impressionist, and just an amazing energy. And like he plays Johnny Test, and he was Waldorf Sockbat, sort of the SpongeBob character on Drawn Together.
Anyway, he’s got a review video of this mic called the Aston Origin, and in it, he’s talking about these little quick release connectors. There are these two parts. It’s just this little metal column, and one part goes on to any mic stand, and then the other part screws into the bottom of your mic shock mount.
And what it does is that it keeps you from having to constantly screw and unscrew all of your mics from the stands, and then this little two-piece kit allows you to literally just snap on, snap off your mics. So, since I got those, I’ve been switching my mics out a lot more often. I’ve been playing with them a lot instead of just letting them sit in the box.
And speaking of boxes, I actually got a new equipment case from SKB, which is an American company. They make really nice equipment cases. And then I got this one that was designed for six handheld mics.
If you’ve seen like an equipment case for like a live set, you might know what I’m talking about. Usually just like a big black militarized plastic case, nothing special. But these ones are really neat because they have sort of customizable padding.
Oh, so it’s like a gig case or a road case for a band.
That’s why I got it. Because I was tired of like when I switched out mics, they would all have to go back into their individual boxes. And only two out of four of my mics had decent cases that came with them.
Like my Blue Mouse had a nice wooden case, and the 416 has a nice travel case. But my other two mics just had their boxes. But anyways, this thing is designed to hold six handheld dynamics, but you can move the padding around to snugly fit whatever you want, really.
I was able to fit three mics, two shock mounts, and a couple of those quick release connectors, and it fits perfectly. I’m pretty amazed. This would be perfect if you wanted to take, like say, Paul’s small USB mic or a smaller condenser and say like a one or two channel interface.
That would fit perfectly in that, I think. And it’s incredibly well protected. It’s waterproof.
And it was only like 60 bucks because it was a demo unit from Sweetwater. And they’re like, oh, may have light scratches on the surface. I’m like, it’s a travel case.
Of course it’s gonna have scuff marks on it. So yeah, that was a really happy one. And then one last thing, this isn’t necessarily VO related, but that’s what I’m using it for, is this new battery pack from an Indiegogo that I participated in called OmniCharge.
And this is an amazing, like I can’t believe I’m this excited about a battery pack, but it’s, so I mean, I’m sure you’ve seen them anywhere, like those small, like they can be like the size, like either a stick of gum or like a packet of cigarettes or something like that. And it’s just something that came out of the mobile or like the need to constantly charge your devices. But anyways, this one is amazing because it can hold up to, it’s like 20,500 milliamps.
It’s huge and it can power up to four devices. It’s got two USB outs and then two DC outs. It actually has a three prong outlet on it.
So you could plug your laptop into that. And basically you can charge a phone for up to nine hours or a laptop for five. How big is it?
It’s not much larger than your average battery pack, especially considering what the output is.
I have a similar thing that I bought for power failures in my house. This was like 10 years ago. I think it has about the same output, but it’s two suitcases full of lead acid batteries.
Oh my God. No, this thing is tiny. It’s, especially considering the size of certain mini tablets and phones these days, it’s not much larger than those.
The reason I got it is because when we travel, we might need, or like one complaint is, or one workaround is trying to have a good outlet to plug your laptop or even your interface, because certain interfaces like the Audient ID14 or the Apollo Twin or the SPL Crayon or the ID22, they require additional power to ensure like a clean signal in their preamps, because they just don’t get enough reliable power from USB alone. So that completely changed the game for me. Like I can actually travel with my ID14 now, because I don’t need to worry about the power outlet and stuff like that.
And I mean, I can charge my laptop, my phone, and my iPad at the same time. Yeah, it’s amazing. If you want to support them, it’s OmniCharge at indiegogo.com.
I think it’s great. It’s like the last portable battery pack you would ever need. I think it’s amazing.
Little expensive, but if you’re never going to buy another battery pack again, let this be your last one, so.
Awesome. So that wraps up the discussion on this week’s questionable gear purchases.
Or beneficial gear purchases.
Yeah, makes more sense.
At least this time, they’re not always, you know.
And now it’s time to get to the meat of this episode, our Representation Roundtable.
Reptable.
So the topic for today’s episode is representation. Why you might need it, what you do once you get it. Sean and I were talking to some colleagues and figured out there’s a lot of misconceptions out there about what happens once you actually are represented.
Sean and I have both been represented for a couple of months now, closer to a year for me. And we found out that not all is rosy in the land of representation. So we brought in some VO friends that are a little bit further along in their journey to talk about their experiences with their agents and being represented.
Yeah, that’s right. Like Paul was saying, even we had our own misconceptions about the role of an agent in your voiceover career. And it’s just another one of those factors that has changed so dramatically in the industry in the last 10, 15, 20 years.
Because I know when I started, I still assumed that you would go into a third party studio, your agent would find you all of your work, and once you got an agent, you were kind of in, you made it, you know? And nowadays, that simply isn’t the case. And so, we’re going to really explore that, how you can sort of make the agent-talent relationship work for you, and basically, sort of the best practices for approaching an agent and developing good relationships with your agents once you get them.
So, joining us in just a few moments will be Michael Schwalbe, Heather Costa, Moe Rock, and Matthew Curtis. Stay tuned.
So, welcome everybody to the Roundtable Discussion portion of The VO Meter. Sean and I are going to be joined in just a second by some fabulous guests. We want to recap the reason we’re doing this.
So, as you know, the VO Meter’s thrust is to help people who are just starting out. And one of those questions people often ask is, when do I get an agent? How do I get an agent?
What can an agent do for me? So, that’s what we’re going to talk about in just a second. But first, I want to introduce our fabulous guests.
Let’s start with Moe, if we could, please.
Hello, I’m Moe Rock. I’ve been in voiceover for over 20 years, to age myself. I have a degree in theater with an acting concentration.
And I’ve been full time a little over five years. And I specialize in commercial character and narration.
Fabulous, welcome. And how about Matthew?
Hi, I’m Matthew. I’m a voice artist. So I’ve actually been doing performing about all my life, voiceover often on ever since I was about 10.
And then really started taking it seriously about three years ago. And about full time now, except for that I have two children. So I have to work a part time job just to feed those mouths.
But hopefully by the end of the year to be actually going full time. So also play Drop Zone. If anyone’s out there and plays video games, play Drop Zone.
Awesome. Welcome, Matthew.
We’re all about the shameless self promotion. It’s okay, Matt. So up next we have Michael, Michael Schwalbe.
I hope I said that right.
You did say that right. Thank you, Sean. My name is Michael Schwalbe.
I’m a full time voice actor based in Nashville, Tennessee. Been full time a little over three years now. Went to school for music business, found out that the music business sucks now.
So I’ve been doing this ever since and making a lot more money. As far as my work, I do a lot of commercial work. I do a lot of video game and animation work.
And yeah, that’s me.
Very cool. And our final guest for the afternoon, Miss Heather Costa. How are you doing, Heather?
I’m good. How are you?
Great. Tell us about yourself.
I’m a New York voice actor, and I just moved to LA with my family about a month ago. And very, very excited, settling in slowly. I’ve been voicing since 2004.
I do a lot of commercial, animation, video game, audiobook, a lot of corporate stuff, kind of the gamut of VO. And I have two little kids also, so the juggling of the VO and not. But sometimes I just come in my booth for some quiet and sometimes to work, you know.
That artistic relief.
Well, great. Welcome, everybody. Once again, thank you for joining us.
I think it’s going to be a great discussion. Sean, I believe you want to start with the first question, so fire away.
Yeah, let’s keep it simple. When did you get your first agent? About how long into your voiceover career did you have it?
So anyone, you’re welcome to answer.
This is Heather. I got my first agent, I was probably already in VO for about six years. And I think it’s just because I wasn’t really marketing myself to agents before that.
And she was a small time agent, but she was wonderful, like a small market, like, you know, not a big time agent, but she did exactly what I needed her to do. And she sent me out often for auditions, and she was great.
That’s wonderful. And what were you doing before that?
I was just doing marketing on my own. I built up my clientele just marketing without agents.
And that was like contacting production houses directly?
Yes, yes. Production houses had agencies.
Yeah, and feel free to get as specific as you like, guys, because we’re trying to help people who really don’t know where to look for voice over opportunities. So like maybe they’ve just finished their coaching, they’ve got some demos out, and they don’t know what to do. So some people might take the direct to agent route and other people might be wanting to do what you did and kind of be more independent and contact the client directly.
I think both are very valuable. And at this point in my career, I have a bunch of really great regional agents as well as direct marketing that I do.
How many agents do you have, if you don’t mind?
About seven? Seven, yes.
Anybody else who wants to share their experience about when they first looked for an agent or how they landed with their first agent?
I’ll go. This is Moe Rock. And my path has been probably a little different than most people’s.
Like I said, once I graduated college and they didn’t teach us much voiceover in college, so I started pursuing that outside. I got an agent pretty darn quickly at that, but she was, even though it was Seattle, she was kind of one of the smaller non-union agents. And then I went off on other paths and then ended up coming back to voiceover, did a little bit here and there, and then more and more and more, and then when I went full time is when I picked up my next agent.
So I had like a big long period of like 15 years or so in between. And when I picked up that first agent, I actually, it was kind of a mutual friend. Let me introduce you to this person.
But I didn’t really pursue other agents until I felt like I was at the level. Because you don’t want to give a bad impression. You don’t want them to remember you for not quality work.
So you’ve got to be really careful about when you start pursuing agents, when you have that quality demo, when you have a really good website, when you’re going to come off as incredibly professional. Otherwise, you might leave a bad taste in their mouth. They might see your name and never ever listen to your demo again, even though you’ve improved.
So it’s really important to like get that level down. And now I have like 10 agents. But I waited until like several demos down the line before I really was like, okay, now I’m banging.
Now I can really go out there and get them.
Fantastic. Thank you. And Matt or Mike, do you guys want to chime in?
Sure, I can chime in. I didn’t really put a big emphasis on finding an agent for quite a while. I’m a big aficionado of the Doug Turkell school of thought, which is, don’t be the kind of talent that needs an agent.
Be the kind of talent an agent needs. Oh, I like that. So I set about more on trying to build my career.
And like Moe said, get all my ducks in a row. Be as professional as possible. Even from the very beginning, I never did the free or low-pay work to get into VO.
I went whole hog right away, got all my demos done, all my stuff put together, and then just said I was a professional. And my very first voice over client ever was the National Museum of the US Army and doing voices for their exhibits. So I think that there’s a lot of value to that, to just always presenting yourself as professionally as possible.
And so my first agent, I got in December of last year, maybe. And then I… So I had four then by April, because I was like, I want agents, so then I just started shopping around.
We’re talking about snowballing, man.
I ditched one of them already, because it was a bad fit, we’ll call it that. And so I’m kind of actively now looking, because I’ve booked a few pretty sizable jobs lately, and I’m trying to use that as momentum to then get some serious LA representation, and I’m working on that now.
Fantastic. Well, congratulations on all your hard work.
Sorry, Sean, let me ask Matthew a question so he doesn’t have a chance to speak. One of the things we wanted to bring up, and really the reason Sean and I came up with this topic, is because we found that for both ourselves and some other talent that we’ve spoken to, once you get an agent, you may not book right away, or it might take quite a few months to actually book a job with an agent. Matthew, did you find that once you were represented, you booked right away, or how did that process pan out for you?
Well, mine’s a bit different because… While I’ve been doing VO often on all my life, and then really started pursuing about three years ago, I was actually working with a local agent doing film and musicals and all different stuff, and VO on the side. Then when I decided that I really just wanted to pursue VO, and the other stuff is the side, they really didn’t want me to do that, and so we kind of had a falling out, and I don’t have them anymore.
It was last year that I started getting some other agents, and I have booked one or two things through them, but don’t expect to book stuff right away. Like, having an agent isn’t the be-all-end-all to booking, because if you also think about it, they’re going to be sending you stuff off of voicebank.net, which every agent is going to be sending every one of their talents as well. So, you’re still competing with a whole lot of people.
And generally, there’s always someone better, unless you have something that they really, really want.
Does anyone else have a comment on that, about when you feel like you should be booking once you’re represented, or is there a time to hit the panic button and say, all right, now it’s been too long?
Well, it kind of depends on the agency. Because, like Matthew said, a lot of agents… I have some regional agents that I don’t really even hear from, unless it’s a voice bank audition.
Because they’re maybe mostly modeling or on camera or some other kind of talent agency that just so happens to also get voice bank stuff and kind of send that out as it comes. So for something like that, you might be up against 900 people for a voice bank audition. One of my agents informed me that I was shortlisted for a radio campaign, said I was in the top 15 out of more than 900 applicants.
So if you think that agencies are going to lessen your competition or that have fewer people you’re competing against, you’re mistaken. And even if it is just your one agency, the reality is that there might be a couple other people that are very similar in sound to you, but unlike maybe on voices.com or a Pay2Play site, those other people are also at the top of their game because they’re on an agency. So whereas maybe you’re 5% less good than somebody else, but you’ve got the more right voice for that spot on an agency roster, everybody is that good.
And so there’s just a lot less room for not being the best. I don’t know. That wasn’t what I meant, but it can take a while.
Yeah, I think you’re making a fantastic point, Michael. And a lot of people might think that, like we were talking about before, once you get an agent, you’ve made it. And it really just opens up a completely new level of competition and challenge.
And another thing that people might not consider is that when you get started with an agent, they don’t know what your strengths are. There’s a learning period. Basically, the only feedback I’ve gotten from my agents is that I’m getting a lot more lucrative auditions, for one thing, which is nice, but ones that are a lot more in-caping with my wheelhouse, with my tonal character, things like that.
So eventually, it takes some time to build that relationship and get a more personalized one with your agency.
And I promise I’m not going to monopolize this call, but something else that just occurred to me is that when you said you’re on a different level of competition, it’s also a different… it can be a different sound. Like, say you’re booking a lot on, you know, voices, other casting sites, the work that you’re finding on your own, and you’re primarily doing, you know, maybe small corporate videos, local TV or radio spots.
National spots sound a lot different. They, like, the trends move much more quickly in what the people are looking for. So you might be booking well on kind of the local sound or like a more typical classic commercial read, but a big brand doesn’t want a classic commercial read.
They want something that’s like on the cut edge. So you might be reading for spots like a year like behind what you should be in terms of how kind of forward thinking your reads are. So you might just not be reading the style they want either.
And you can also get not selected, not booked, for reasons that are completely out of your control. I mean, I made top five for a national recently, and I didn’t get it, but it could have been my voice. One person thought I sounded like someone they don’t like.
It could be something as simple like that. They also were really wanting people in New York City or in LA. I can’t remember.
And so I have ISDN. I have Source Connect. I have everything they need, but maybe they selected someone who was actually in LA.
There’s variables that you’re not even considering. It doesn’t mean don’t get better, but there are variables that you’re not considering, too.
Moe, do you try using the tagline imported from Lancaster County?
I’ll just pretend to be Amish.
So speaking about marketing, it’s a bring us to our next question. Heather, are you still with us? I wanted to ask you, you talked about doing a lot of your own personal marketing.
What can you do to market yourself to your agents to improve your bookability?
Well, when I land… You mean the agents that you already have? Yeah.
So when I land a big spot, I will email them individually. Hey, I just wanted to let you know I just booked this, or I think this would be a good… This was really in my wheelhouse.
So it’s kind of engaging with them. Also, I find that when I’m booking out and then I book back in, it also engages conversation and kind of puts me back on their radar. Sometimes if it’s a really big audition, I will ask them for feedback and say, hey, do you think this is what they’re looking for, or is there anything that I can tweak?
Because you have to remember they’re on your side. They want you to succeed as much as you do. And then it also depends on the agent.
Some agents all get a lot of stuff, and others I will get really specific, you and a few others are being considered for this. And you really want to bring your best foot forward for that. So it really depends on the agent.
Very nice. And so that brings on to a similar topic. How often do you guys communicate directly with your agents?
What do you feel is sort of like the happy medium between pestering and just being completely scarce?
Well, to piggyback on what I was saying, I also try to send a newsletter quarterly. So between that and then between… I don’t think I necessarily think of having to do it a certain amount of time when I have something to share with them or if it’s like I’m sending stuff out now, hey, happy belated new year.
Because the rush of everything already passed. And if I’ve realized, hey, I haven’t directly contacted them and it’s been a month or so, maybe I should shoot them an email or whatever it is. Because sometimes I get responses just when I submit auditions.
It depends on, again, the agent.
Has anybody ever been reprimanded by their agent saying, hey, don’t put that out there because I wanted to or let me handle that for you?
When I first got started, yes. I didn’t realize that it was something I booked through the agent and then the client contacted me directly and then I started having a discussion with the client. And the agent was like, you may not realize, you may not know this, but the correspondence between the client should always go through the agent.
So now if a repeat client contacts me directly, but I booked it through an agent, I will say, you know, thanks so much. Would love to work with you. I’m available today.
But can you contact so-and-so to get it set up?
That’s a great point.
So I learned.
Well, and your agent will appreciate that because then it tells them that you’re not interested in like scalping the job off them and that they’re worth the commission or whatever. I think this isn’t exactly being reprimanded, but I had an agent that just always sounded annoyed if I called them. And then that culminated in getting booked for a job that then the client really took advantage of me in the session and like gave me twice as many scripts as I’ve been booked for.
And I was like assuming the agent had my back and then I didn’t get paid for any of it and the agent didn’t tell them no. And so then when I was calling them about it, they sounded like I was bothering them. And so then I was like, you know, no, because like we said, they’re on your side, they’ve got your back, or they should, if they don’t, or if you feel like they are being pestered when you’re calling them, ditch them, because there are other agents out there that won’t treat you like that.
You don’t need them. You are the reason they have a job. So yeah, so I didn’t put up with it.
I just said, you know, I don’t think you’re representing my interests any longer and I’m not interested in being a part of this agency.
When is the time to look for a new agent or expand your roster of agents?
I’m looking right now, like I said. I think once you maybe, because there’s a couple levels kind of of agents, you know, the regional talent agents are like maybe a managerial style of an agent or major market representation in LA. So once you book, you’ve got to got a window.
You’ve kind of got this, like if you book a national campaign, like I did some spots for Wendy’s and I’m narrating a TV show right now. And so then that was like, oh, this is my window. I’ve got like two really pretty serious things like right now.
So I need to start pushing. And then I was like, except my demos are not, well, they really are not LA ready. So then that was like, oh crap.
So I’ve got to wait for the next window.
But I probably still want to grab that window.
Oh, I mean, trust me, I did. But when they said no, that was when I was like, oh.
Okay, well, that makes sense. I think as you grow, I think you will you pick up agents a lot easier for one when your materials are of a certain quality. And it’s just when you’re ready, you know, I mean, for the longest time, I just had one because I felt like that was all I needed.
And then, you know, when I felt like, you know, my website and my demos and everything was, all my ducks were lined up really nice and proper. Then I went on mass pursuits, you know, I mean, that was my, my task was to pick up agents. And, you know, and then you kind of go, okay, well, I have one in the Northeast and I have one in the South and I have one in LA and I have one in New York.
And, you know, and you kind of do your territory. And then now I’m kind of good. I have some in Europe, I have some in the US.
I feel comfortable with where I’m at unless I see an agency that peaks up that, that is a territory that I don’t cover. I also do, like, character work, so I just picked up an agency that specializes in toys. So that is an avenue that I was pursuing.
Perhaps a bigger agency in LA or New York, if you’re at that level. But if you’re just starting out, you know, it’s kind of as you can get them.
I’ve got a question for Moe. How much, because I think you said you have seven agents or something like that or ten?
I have ten.
How much overlap? Because I was starting to get like triple overlap, even when I had four. And so, and I talked to some people that were like, I wouldn’t have more than six.
So how much overlap are you getting? Or do you really do your homework on like, oh, they do this one type of genre. So I don’t have to worry about like getting overlap in other industries.
Several of them kind of came on all at once. Like I said, I tried to do a mass so I could go, okay, well, if I get two offers from the same area, I can be selective. But sometimes I did.
So every once in a while, yeah, the voice bank auditions, I will get overlap. I mean, I give priority to either the first who sends it to me or my bigger agent, whoever I think is going to have more pull for me. I will break that first come first serve rule.
But yeah, the voice bank auditions, but I’m finding lately I’m not getting a lot of overlap. I’m getting, you know, I try to find agencies that are maybe small town, regional, and they have gigs that are well-paying that are not with other agencies. And that is a fabulous thing to find.
Get on these small agencies. I shouldn’t give out my secrets, but that’s a great way to pick up gigs. And maybe they’re not the biggest names.
Maybe they are. But it’s a great way to pick up different gigs through your agencies and not have the overlap and not just be getting voice bank.
Is there a number that’s too many? Too many agents? Anyone?
I don’t know what that number is, but I would say yeah, probably.
Well, it’s like we were talking about before. We have two examples where one has more than a handful of agents and there’s no overlap, and the other one has less, and there is. So I guess it really just depends on where the agency is, like where it is and what kind of work they do.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, and I’ve dropped agencies over the years and picked up different ones.
Also, on that note, I think that once you get to a certain point or number of agents, some are bigger time and some are smaller, and they may give you a lot of great opportunities, but you don’t necessarily have to showcase all of them on your website. Maybe pick your top four. Exactly, yeah.
So your local one, the bigger markets. And even though the smaller ones may be giving you tons of great opportunities, either they’re not going to care or, you know, having too many on your website, then it doesn’t necessarily look good for you.
I would agree with that. There are agencies also out there that will say you’re only allowed to have three or four.
Right.
They say you can only be with us if you only have. And I think that number is three, four?
And then some are exclusive for their area? Yep.
A lot are.
And others don’t care?
So this is a little bit off book, but it made me think about what Heather was talking. Are there any other warning signs that a newer talent should know about when they’re being approached by an agent? Things that they should avoid?
Things in a contract that they should be really weary about?
Annual subscriptions.
Don’t pay them other than commission and maybe a one-time web fee to help you get up on their site. Some agents will charge that, but you shouldn’t be paying annually.
Yeah, and schooling. If they’re pushing, hey, we teach this class, blah, blah, blah. Hey, we can get you pictures or headshots or demos.
Yeah, it’s probably a bad sign.
And also the amount of the percentage that they take. If it’s more than 20, just say no. And even 20 is too much, in my opinion.
I had one, and spoiler, it was the one I left. So 15% for non-union is pretty normal, 10% for union. But if they’re taking 20, be wary, because there are other agents that don’t, and then 25 or more, just flip them the bird and don’t even respond.
I see 20 a lot, so I don’t know if I necessarily agree with that. I don’t know if I’d agree with that. But I wouldn’t say that 25 is too much, and you also do need to be aware that sometimes 20 actually means 40.
If you see an audition that says 20 plus 20% agency fee, so you think, awesome, the client’s paying the agent, I get all of that money? They’re going to take that 20, and then they’re going to take another 20 from your money. Not all agents do it, but some do, so be aware.
Another thing to be wary of is if you are brand new, and even if you have a killer demo, but you have no experience yet, and the agents are interested in you, just make sure it’s for the right reasons, because usually agents are not going to be interested until you can prove that you can do the work. Just because you have a great sound doesn’t mean you’re going to be bookable for them. So if they’re interested too soon, just make sure that they are a reputable agent.
And if they are, great, congratulations.
Yeah, good point.
Yeah, if they’re interested in you and you don’t have a serious referral that’s vouching for you or something, or just amazing demos or something that really puts you above, yeah, I think there’s a good chance they’re actually trying to get something from you or to take advantage of you.
So, since we’re already scared of agents now, that leads on to our next question.
No, I’m kidding, but it really does… it is relevant to what I’m going to say next. Do we even need an agent for a healthy VO career?
Because I think you guys have all proved it that you don’t to some degree, but you also benefit from having an agent. So, what do you guys feel? Does a talent really need one if they don’t want one?
I think a lot of people have proven that you don’t really need one to succeed. I mean, you look at like Mark Scott, who is a very prominent VO, great blog, got a lot of good coaching stuff, and he says he worked for three years before he had an agent. And by then, he was making his legendary six figures that you can make in this business.
So, I don’t think you necessarily need an agent to succeed. I think it helps if you find a good agent who will work with you and will know your voice in and out and will send you things that you’re right for. It’s a legendary agent that I have yet to meet.
But then again, I haven’t been with my agents that long for them to get to know my voice or to get to know me. And, you know, half the stuff I do, they can’t really send stuff out for right now because of a certain strike that’s going on.
Yeah, yeah. Well, and I think need… the word need has a connotation that’s not quite appropriate.
I mean, it’s sort of the icing on the cake. Or you could say need if you want to take your career to that level. I mean, you’re never going to get union auditions without an agent.
So if you want to go union and you want big nationals and high-paying jobs, then yes, you do need an agent. If you are happy doing non-union work and you don’t care about nationals and you just want to do corporate videos and local commercials and you can still make a six-figure income doing that, then no, you don’t need an agent. It depends on where you want to go.
I was making a healthy five-figure income before I had any agents, so you certainly can. And I will say, depending on where you live, I got my first couple of union jobs before I had an agent. And it was because I knew some casting directors and some production houses here in Nashville that regularly did union work, and I just kind of got on the radar and got to build a relationship with them.
So I wasn’t represented, but they knew me. But I will say, like, 98% of the time, that’s not the case. But yeah, you can live without them.
And really, having one isn’t going to change your life, probably, unless you’re in LA or something. But it’s not like… You’re not going to suddenly hit the big time once you get an agent.
You’ll just do a lot more auditions.
Hopefully.
Over and over. You know, it’s just another… more people out there.
I mean, I am very fortunate to be successful in my own marketing, but I’m constantly getting opportunities from agents that I never would have seen without them. So, I do think that agents are wonderful, but I shouldn’t… I think you shouldn’t rely on them solely, but I think that you should, when you get to a certain point, try to get them as well, because they’ll only help your career.
So, along those lines, is it still a benchmark? Because I know, starting out, and I was obviously a misnomer, but my thought was, once I get an agent, then I’ll be all set. I tried to spell that myth on this call, but is it still a benchmark of some sort as to your career progress?
Honestly, I think it depends on the agency, because there’s a lot of agencies out there that are grabbing up as much voice talent as they can get, because they want to have so much that they can send to these voice bank auditions that hopefully, by playing the law of averages, they’ll get more people shortlisted or cast. They’re just starting off… There’s a bunch of new agencies, and they don’t really have a regular list of clients yet that they work exclusively for and say, we have these exclusive voices for you.
When I first got was looking for an agent, I thought that would be the big benchmark, but I didn’t get one for a while after I left my local one, and I was doing fine. Then once I did book an agent, it didn’t really change anything. I did book some things with them, but there was just all the voice bank stuff, which actually put me, when I was thinking about it, when I was like, well, maybe I don’t really want to be with this agent anymore because they don’t really send anything that suits me.
It’s obvious they don’t really know me because I get this blank sheet which says, you know, 60 to 70 year old. I’m like, that’s not my voice. This is my voice.
I’m not 70. That’s probably also a sign of an agent that you don’t want to be with. It’s one that doesn’t really take the time to look at which people are appropriate for which audition.
You think if they’re just sending it out to all their male talent, you have to think, well, maybe I don’t want to be with this agent.
Well, to piggyback on that, I have one agent that when I signed with him, he said, I’m not going to not send you something if it’s… I’m not going to send you an old man spot. Basically, he didn’t want to decide that I couldn’t do something.
So, you know, sometimes I get things from him where I’m like, you know what, I am going to push it. And then it turns out to be something that I wouldn’t necessarily have been cast for, but it ends up being a great fit. So it depends on how you look at it.
I think if all my agents did that, it wouldn’t be good.
And the fact that he brought that up to you, I think, is…
That’s the difference, yeah.
I have one agent that does send me everything that comes through her door, and I prefer that just because I have some other agents that I almost never hear from, but I know they’re getting work, and they’re getting auditions. And so it’s like, well, how do I convince them that I’m a good fit for some of these jobs? Because I’m sure some of them I am.
And so I prefer getting everything, and I’ve been called a vocal chameleon, so I feel like I’ve got a pretty wide range that I don’t want an agent deciding what I can’t do, so I agree with Heather.
Okay, great. To close, let’s talk about one hot tip you would give a newer talent who’s either looking to be with an agent or create a relationship with their existing agent. Anyone that wants to start?
I’ll start, and that’s continue to study. Find coaches, get to know your voice over community, and just continue to study. And hey, maybe you’ve got a really cool voice over.
Maurice Tobias, you’re taking a Maurice Tobias class, let’s say. Well, maybe that’s something that you could say, hey, by the way, I’m studying with Maurice Tobias. You know, put that in your newsletter or a hello email.
I just think it’s so important to continue to study forever, as long as you kind of want to continue to do this. So it’s a chance. Any chance you have to reach out to your agent and not be needy or wanting, like, why can’t I get any jobs?
Why aren’t you sending, you know… Something to say, hey, this is what I’m doing. You know, maybe they’ll feel like, oh, well, I’m doing this, you know.
Reciprocate.
Anybody else?
I would say to really nurture the relationships with your agents. You know, get to know who they are as people and genuinely care about them. And it’s not just, you know, hey, this is what I’ve done, but this is what’s going on in my life.
And how are you and what’s going on in yours? And it’s just relationships are so important in this industry and I think especially with your agents.
I guess I’ve got two quick ones. One is just to reiterate what I said earlier, which is don’t be the type of talent that needs an agent. Be the type of talent an agent needs.
If you focus on building yourself, building your relationships, getting the connections, you’ll be much more valuable and desirable by those agents and they’ll want to shop you around more than if you’re dependent on them for your success. So that’s tip one. Tip two is treat everybody as if they’re worth your time because a lot of the time they actually are.
And much more often than you think they will be. Like the TV show is… I’m working for that show because of a part-time voice actress that I met at a meetup here in Nashville that just so happened to do the finance for their production house too.
Nice, fine.
And so they needed a narrator and she recommended me. It wasn’t an agent. And I know some actors that didn’t even go to the meetup because they thought, oh, they’re all small time.
Like, I won’t get anything out of it. You never know. So be nice to everybody.
Thank you. Well, I want to thank everybody for joining us today. I think we had a great discussion.
Hopefully it will be helpful to our audience. Before we go, free plug time. Let’s go around the room.
Anything? Tell us where we can find you or where we can see your work. Matthew, go.
Okay, let’s see. Most recently, I actually did work for a local company here in Baltimore called Sparky Pants Studios. They’ve just yesterday released on for Steam Early Access Drop Zone.
And funny thing about that job is actually from just a marketing standpoint, they just… I followed them on Twitter. They followed me back.
I said, thank you. And they said, oh, you’re a voice talent. You know, hey, do you want to…
We’re actually looking for people around this area. And I said, okay. And then so I booked a narration job with them, which you can also see on Steam and on YouTube.
And then in that session, the president who I was talking with was just like, hey, we need a character in the video game. And you know, your voice is great. Can we just go ahead and take care of that now?
So I booked two jobs in one sitting. And so if you actually play the infestation mode on Drop Zone, that’s me shouting going, oh, of course, in the morning. I love the smell of chorus in the morning and stuff like that.
And there’s some other stuff, hopefully, in the works, maybe for the next couple of years animation wise, but we’ll see. So anyways, keep fingers crossed.
Best of luck to you. Thank you, man.
Thanks.
That’s great.
Michael, this is because you’re next to my list in the window.
Sure. Shameless plugs. You can find me and my past work and demo reels at whatheesaidvoiceovers.com.
You can hear me on Long Range Reality, on the Sportsman channel. I am a green mouth monkey on some Wendy’s commercials. And you can play some games on Steam with me in a game called Eternal, a game called Neelo, and a bunch of other stuff.
That’s enough.
Awesome. Moe Rock.
Let’s see. Well, you can hear all my demos and find about me and my website, moerock.com. Moe with an E, just like the great Mollerian Curly.
Let’s see. I’m on lots of video games, including Dungeons & Dragons, Neverwinter, all over that game. Got a new game just came out, Skylab.
And I’m on an animation series in Ireland. It’s kind of fun. Commercials, Visa, Dunkin Donuts, Walmart, did some stuff for them.
That’s about all I got going on right now.
Okay, Heather Costa.
You can find my stuff on heathercosta.com. I’m now in LA Talent. And I have a national radio spot for McDonald’s airing right now.
And some spots for Subway, lots of stuff on Pandora. I’m doing a series of audio books for young girls, which is really fun. And some other stuff, Coca-Cola, Nordstrom, just different things here and there.
Lots of corporate things as well. So, yeah, it’s basically what I’m up to.
Okay, we’ll have half of the VO Meter. Sean and myself, thank you very much. Sean, any parting shots?
Well, I just can’t thank you guys enough. I mean, the whole point of this was to dispel some myths about just how vital an agent may or may not be to your business and whether or not it can make or break you. And you guys just blew it right out of the water.
I mean, I’ve learned so much, and I hope our listeners… Well, I know our listeners are going to benefit from it, so thank you so much.
Thanks for having us, you guys. That’s great.
It’s been a pleasure.
Let’s do it again.
That was awesome.
Thanks again, everybody.
Thank you.
Thank you, everybody.
So, that about wraps up this episode of The VO Meter.
Measuring Your Voice Over Progress.
We want to give a special thanks to our guests, Michael Schwalbe and Matthew Curtis.
And the extremely lovely and talented Moe Rock and Heather Costa. So, thanks again to our wonderful guests. And if you have any questions or comments for us or them, go ahead and leave a comment in the Facebook section below.
If you have questions or ideas or want to be a guest on a future episode, just let us know. Have a great day, everyone. Hope you enjoy the podcast.
And follow along at www.vometer.com. Take care, everybody.
Thanks for listening to The VO Meter, Measuring Your Voice Over Progress. To follow along, please visit www.vometer.com.