The VO Meter… Measuring Your Voice Over Progress.
Hello, everybody, and welcome to a very special episode of the VO Meter podcast, Measuring Your Voice Over Progress. It’s leading into the Thanksgiving holiday here in the US., and Sean and I thought we’d take some time to talk about the things for which we are thankful in the world of VO.
But first, as always, we’ll talk a little bit about what’s going on in our careers and our lives, and then we’ll get into what we’re thankful for. So Sean, how have you been, buddy?
Good. I just got back from the East Coast. We were at MAVO in Virginia, or the Mid-Atlantic Voice Over Conference, and then I got to visit my brother and his fiance over in Boston.
And that was a lot of fun. I haven’t been to the East Coast in a long time. It’s definitely different for a Seattleite like myself.
And work-wise, things have been kind of quiet. I’ve just been finishing up on some narration projects. I’m actually looking to get some more coaching with, particularly, an audiobook coach so I can sort of fill my extra hours with nonfiction, or recording nonfiction.
So I’m excited about that.
So you have somebody in mind when you mention the word nonfiction? Somebody I know?
Yeah, someone you know.
Good luck with that.
Well, thank you very much.
So in my VO world, I’m pretty heavily into the audiobooks right now, as I usually am. I usually have at least one or two going, but the moment I have four going, I just picked up another one this afternoon, actually. One is complete and waiting for ACX to approve it, so that one at least is off my to-do list.
But the other three are still pending and working on them every couple of days. But other than that, I was recently upgraded to a professional member of the World Voices Organization. So I was pretty excited about that.
Very cool. And for people who don’t know, WOVO, or World Voices Organization, it’s a trade association. It’s sort of like…
It’s not quite a union, but the whole point is it’s voice over artists volunteering to try and set some sort of standards of quality for everyone, regardless of levels of experience. So it’s some of the best in the business trying to uphold the integrity of said business. So it’s definitely something you should look into becoming a part of if you want to be a voice talent and proud of the work you do in support of the community that you’re a part of.
Yeah, I think the technical term would be an advocacy group.
Yes.
They basically don’t set policy and no rules or regulations that people need to follow. It’s not a union, like you said, but it’s an advocacy group to give people the best practices for how they should conduct themselves in their career. And I found it really beneficial.
It’s one of the things I’m going to get to in my list, so let’s not spoil the surprise. Is there anything else going on in the VO world that we need to talk about?
Well right now, I’m just waiting. I submitted to a couple of agencies. Some are local, out of Seattle, and then some are a little bit further out in Oregon.
But still waiting to hear back on… But honestly, it can be weeks or even months before you hear from an agency. So you just have to keep reaching out to other contacts and try not to go crazy waiting for that phone call.
Yeah, definitely. And along those lines, I’ll throw out another tip that I came across this week, speaking of agents. And it goes back to a blog post I made a few months ago about talking to your agents.
Once you secure that agent and you’re listed and you have representation, that’s great. But you have to make sure you maintain that relationship. So I reached out to all of my agents and sent them a note talking about this upgrade to professional membership for Volvo and got a couple of congratulatory emails.
And one of my agents said, that’s great, but I’m still not seeing you in my casting network’s feed. So it’s a database of actors, I think primarily for on-camera work. But there’s also jobs for voiceover artists.
So my agent in Philadelphia told me, I have not seen you there. So I went back and looked at my profile and realized that I had missed a step in the registration where they had asked for sizes for clothing. So when you’re looking for an actor of a certain build or you need to know what sort of wardrobe you need to have for them for on-camera again, you need to list your coat size and your shoe size and your inseam.
And I just skipped over that because I figured I’m a voice actor. They don’t need to know this. Apparently they did need to know this in order to complete the profile.
Whap, whap.
So all this time, my agent had not been seeing me come up in her feed and consequently wasn’t sending me anything.
And that’s why it’s good to communicate to your agents.
Exactly, communicate to your agent. So since then I’ve had four auditions over the last couple of days.
Oh, nice.
And I think in total, prior to that, I had gotten four the entire year. They were the first agency I signed with. So it pays to talk to your agents, keep up that relationship.
So before we get into the list of the things for which we are thankful, it’s time for this episode’s VO Meter Schtick. This episode featuring Mike Norgaard with some things he’s thankful for and some gear he’s thankful for.
Okay, everybody, it’s time for the VO Meter Schtick.
What did he say?
It’s time for the VO… Oh, nevermind. The VO Meter Schtick?
Oh, got it.
Hey, Paul. Hey, everybody in the VO Meter listening community. Happy Thanksgiving to you.
And we’re talking about, I guess, what we’re thankful for in the VO industry. And first and foremost, I’m gonna say it’s the people and the comradery and the support that this industry offers people, especially people who are new to the industry and trying to sort of get an idea of the landscape and how to get started and break into the business. Seems to be a very welcoming business in that sense.
But the other thing I want to talk about is gear, and in particular, used pro audio gear and where to get it and where to find some great deals on it. One of the secrets that I found is local pawn shops. Pawn shops can be a great place to pick up used pro audio gear, some of it pretty high end.
And I’ll share a little story with you. I’ve gotten a couple of pieces of gear that way. First of all, my JBL 305 Near Field Studio Monitors.
Great little set of monitors. And I got them for about 70% off retail used at a local pawn shop. Just wandered in and kind of looking around at what they had, and lo and behold, there they were.
Secondly, I’ve been auditioning a number of different microphones over probably the last six months or so, trying to find something that I feel is a really good fit for my voice, my recording space, my environment and my sound chain. And I’d always heard, of course, of the venerable MKH 416 by Sennheiser. It really is the industry standard, and something that you’re going to hear everybody talking about in terms of shotgun microphones.
And it does a great job. It’s earned its reputation, but it’s also expensive. New retail, it’s about $1,000 if you buy it right now from Sweetwater, amazon.com, B&H Photo, or wherever your preferred retailer of choice is.
However, you can find them used on the secondary market. Usually they’re between $600 and $700, somewhere in that range. Well, I had seen a 416 come online in inventory at one of the local pawn shop chains that I will drop into from time to time.
And they have an online search feature where you can actually look at their inventory online. This thing was actually listed under camera accessories and not microphones, which may be the reason that it stayed on the shelf as long as it did. After about two weeks of looking at this thing, listed at $599.99, I decided to drop in and have a look at it in person.
Well, I did so, and luckily, the store was already running a Black Friday special and had it marked down to $425. So I’m looking at this 416 for $425, which is just an unheard of price. And you do have to be careful, by the way, because there are some counterfeit 416s floating around out there, and you can read stories about them online.
So I thought, well, at $425, it may be worth a shot. I know that the store has a seven-day return policy, and I bought an audio interface there once in the past. It wasn’t exactly what I was looking for, and did take it back, and they honored the return policy.
So it’s pretty comfortable with the fact that if it didn’t work out, I could take it back. So I decided to give it a try, brought it home, plugged it into my interface, and lo and behold, it’s the real McCoy. And I ended up paying $360 after a little bit of negotiation, so out the door for exactly $400 cash with an MKH 416.
So keep that in mind, and consider visiting your local pawn shop if you want to find some great deals on pro audio equipment. But again, word of caution, always check the return policy before buying anything used. Happy Thanksgiving, everybody.
Thank you, Mike. Great story. Let’s move into the meat…
Ha ha, see what I did there? Of this…
You are correct, sir….
Let’s talk about some of the things for which we are thankful in our VO careers. Do you want me to start, Sean, or would you like to start?
Well, I’ll start. I mean, I already love Thanksgiving as a given just because of how… I love food.
I love the food that is involved. I love… I have many, many happy memories of being with friends and family for Thanksgiving and, actually, my friends’ family sort of adopting my family into their Thanksgiving celebrations and those are always lots of fun and just more pumpkin pie as far as the eye can see and just…
I mean, it’s a great foodie holiday, you know?
Yeah, indeed. It’s one of my favorite things, too. I do love to eat.
What’s your favorite Thanksgiving dish?
I just like the turkey, honestly.
The turkey? Yeah.
I’m one of the guys that loves to grab the whole turkey leg and just go to town on it in front of everybody and just drool on the table.
I just like the whole set, you know? It’s like, I mean, you have to have the… Usually, I’ll have turkey, ham, mashed potatoes and gravy and stuffing all on one plate and then that’s just like one single food, you know?
That is Thanksgiving dinner.
Yeah, things that you would never actually eat together normally.
Yeah. Which is really, really interesting.
Sweet and salty and sour is mixed together, but it all seems to work.
But anyways, thankful. So, I mean, Thanksgiving is a family holiday and that’s something that I’m very grateful for is a supportive family and like a very strong support group because it did take a while to convince everybody that, hey, this was a viable career choice. But once it did, everyone was nothing but support.
Parents are trying to help me build a studio space in our house and all of my friends are incredibly supportive and are very happy for me. And you need that sometimes because we face rejection every day. So yeah, you have to have a thick skin, but it’s a lot easier if you have a support group to help you.
And I would say the first people I need to thank are my supportive family as well, my parents who have been very supportive, my wife who is a saint because of all the purchases that I’ve made and has tolerated that for the rest of her life. Yeah, we’ve had that conversation pretty much weekly for the last nine to 12 months.
Oh man.
But I understood because it can be a leap. And like you said, it takes a while to gain some ground and actually see some results. And at first, it can seem like a giant waste of time and or money.
And I can see objectively how that appears to the outside world and especially your family who’s sharing your finances and sharing your living space. When I dropped the booth in the middle of the spare bedroom, everybody said, what did you just do up there? How are we supposed to get to the bed or the desk to do our homework?
And, you know, they have to be supportive, otherwise, it’s not going to work. So I’m incredibly thankful to my wife, my three kids, and as I said, my parents who don’t live with me, but have been extremely supportive as well.
That’s wonderful. Very happy about that. Let’s see.
Other things to be thankful for, VO Mentors. And, this could be a coach that you pay to work with, or it could be a talent that is more experienced than you and takes you under their wing, or the community as a whole. Because, and granted, when you ask a question on the internet, it is wisdom of the crowd, but still, everyone is very, very generous with their insights and with their knowledge of audio recording and tech…
Most of the time, yes.
Most of the time, yes. But the VO community is probably the most supportive in the entertainment industry, without a doubt. So, it’s one that I’m very grateful to be a part of and very happy that I’m included.
Anybody specific that you want to mention? I have a few names I’m going to throw out, but I’ll give you the chance first.
Yeah, a lot of people at the Global Voice Acting Academy, Christina Melizia and David Rosenthal and Ann Gangusa and Mario Navall and David Tobak and Terry Daniel and Sean Allen Pratt and Deb Monroe, whole bunch of different coaches and… or Chrisman Freeman, lots and lots of people who have helped me out in different ways throughout the years.
Yeah, so I have a few names as well, but they all started from an organization or I guess an entity online. That’s the VO’s BB or the Voice Over Bulletin Board, and that was a… or still is, an online collection of information and profiles for VO talent and one of the greatest repositories I found for backlogs of information on everything from gear to coaching to the best way to market your business and some of the greatest talent in the world are on there.
And they have helped me tremendously in getting started. It’s the first place I went and found really any information, and that’s because the depth and breadth of the information is such that if you do a Google search on anything voice over related, it will probably come up. Yeah, exactly.
And that’s the thing is it’s not that difficult to find. I just feel like if a bunch of new people, if they looked there, if they looked at voice over extra, if they read some of the better voice over blogs like Paul Strakwerd is or Dave Kervasi is, then so many of their questions would be answered.
Yeah, it’s true.
I mean, granted, the VO BB has been around for a while, almost two decades. So some of that content is a little dated, like only the technological stuff, because this is back when people were using sound cards and FireWire and stuff like that. Everything else is golden.
And it’s one of the few places that you can go where you can get honest feedback on your demo, or a lot of people will have it produced, but then they might not like the order of a demo. And then you can get feedback on that, or people are willing to criticize your website and give you ideas to make it more mobile friendly, or just brainstorm and help improve your business.
Yeah, exactly. You mentioned VO Mentors. I have quite a few that I met virtually through the VOBB that maybe they don’t consider me a protege, but I certainly consider them mentors because of all the private conversations we have.
And Bob Bergen comes to mind, Philip Banks, another great talent from the UK, Peter Bishop, UK talent living in the US, and Doug Turkel all have been so giving of their time when I was badgering them with stupid questions early on and never complained, just gave me reams of information where to go and basically helped me grow up in the business. And I know I’ve only been doing it for a year and a half to two years now, but I feel like I would have stagnated much worse if I didn’t have those people in my life to help me along the way.
But yeah, I mean, it’s absolutely. And I mean, you sound quite grateful and I’m sure you are. And it makes you want to give back too.
I mean, that’s the whole reason we’re doing this podcast is because we want to offer what we can. And as our own knowledge and experience grows in the voiceover business, we’ll have more that we’ll be able to offer to the community behind us, you know? So.
Yeah, it might be a good time to say again that Sean and I are not putting ourselves out there as experts in any way, shape or form. We’re just trying to share some of the knowledge we’ve gained along the way and hopefully help people that may be in a situation we were in not so long ago. So along those lines, another great online resource and folks that have helped me professionally again are the VOBS folks.
That stands for Voice Over Body Shop. It’s a web show that’s airing right now, actually. So if you’re listening to this on a Monday night, you’re probably multitasking, listening to George and Dan.
So George Widom, Dan Leonard, the guys that host that show. So much information that they put out there just out of the goodness of their hearts on that show and in the backlogs of their past episodes. Again, that’s basically where I grew up in the business was learning that information from them.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I went, they taught me everything I know about audio recording basically and making my workflow easier for me. I know it’s intimidating for a lot of people or some people who are apathetic towards having to do the audio engineering stuff, but they make it so accessible and it’s downright entertaining to watch and they get some amazing guests on there.
So Dan and George, thank you guys so much. And they’ve both helped me out with improving my studio sound via some of their services. So, I mean, they’re great and they’re great to work with.
Yeah, if you’re old enough to remember the old Hair Club for Men commercials, I’m not just a member, I’m also a client. George and Dan have services for hire and I’ve hired them both at different times to help me out. So if you’re looking to pay a professional to help get your sound right, probably can’t find a better place.
And then there are other great people too. I mean, there’s Uncle Roy and Dan Friedman, or I should say Uncle Roy Yokelson, or Cliff Zellman, or Jordan Reynolds. So if you ask any of those guys, you’ll be set with your voice over technological problems.
Indeed. So talking about additional free information, a person who also helped me with their backlog of free information was Bill Dewey’s very successful voice talent who also has a coaching business, but has available lots of free information on his website.
He probably has the most ubiquitous YouTube channel regarding to voice over technique and technology and providing voice over services.
Yeah, that’s probably true.
He recently came under some fire from the voice over industry because he was essentially endorsing Fiverr or trying to release a secret to unlocking the true earning potential of being a Fiverr talent. But I don’t know, I’m conflicted about it. Like, I love his free resources, but in the same vein.
So, I mean, it’s really up to you. I just want to provide the information so you can make an unbiased choice.
Yeah, of course. Like anything, you should make your own decisions. But I respect the man for his information, at least at the outset.
Absolutely. I mean, he is a businessman at heart. He came into it through marketing, and so he knows what he’s doing.
All right, well, you’re going to like this one. You ready?
Yay.
So I need to thank the former New Guy Group, or New Person Group. And that is a group of people that I basically pulled together about a year ago to do workouts every week. We met virtually over Google Hangouts mostly.
I think we did Skype once. But we got people from around the globe together to just talk about the trials and tribulations that they were having the past week, and the sort of wins they had in their career, and then actually do workouts, read scripts, get critiques, and hopefully get better. So those people in no specific order are Mike Norgaard, who is a voice talent out of Texas, John Rorda, works out of Indiana, Heather Masters, who is in Alaska, Marisha Toppera, who is kind of near me in Silver Spring.
Oh, I’m going to botch it. I believe it’s Silver Spring, if not, Rockville. Sorry, Marisha.
And finally, our own Sean Daeley. So we met on the VOBB and had that idea to get that group together. And the rest was history, as they say.
No, and I’m really grateful to Paul for starting that group, because it’s like we were talking about having a support group. If you don’t have friends or family who know or support what you’re trying to do, VO-related, then you got to find your tribe. And Paul certainly went out of his way to find people who were at where he was at or just ahead of him, so they could challenge him to go to do better.
Like I’ve said before, we all offer our own unique experiences and our own niches that we can offer advice on. And of course, it’s really fun to vent and talk shop and to share experiences. It’s very fun.
And I’ve done online workout groups. I’ve done in-person ones, and they both have their benefits, so see what you can find. They’re definitely worth your time.
Yeah, there was actually a discussion on this this afternoon in one of the Facebook groups where Bish, Peter Bishop, who we mentioned earlier, was talking about how important he thinks, what do you call them, affinity groups or stand-up groups are to progress your career. And I mentioned this little…
Having accountability buddies.
So, I mentioned this little group we have and how beneficial it was to us. And I would highly recommend anyone out there who’s sort of feeling lost to seek out people. Because everyone that I pulled into this group, the first response was, oh, I’ve been looking for something exactly like that.
I wish I had something like that. And my advice would be if there isn’t in your area, start it yourself. Start a local meetup group or start one online with people that you know from social media.
It can really be helpful to not only your career, but your sanity. Like Sean was saying, just being able to talk shop with someone else who understands what you’re going through is so helpful.
And sometimes you can work out solutions to problems or making yourself more efficient at editing or marketing or what have you. But sometimes it’s just nice to vent.
Indeed. So another organization I want to thank is the World Voices Organization. We mentioned them earlier, but they have been tremendously helpful to me with not only their information, but again, having sort of a group of like-minded people that I know I can go to if I have a question or a concern and always get an answer or an opinion.
And Dave Gavache, in particular, who’s the current president, has been extremely helpful to me. He’s allowed me on the roundtable where I was able to talk with other pros on their live meeting. And again, it’s been great for me.
It’s a fantastic group. And like I said, it’s really one all about integrity. Some of the issues that they are constantly working on are maintaining and even increasing compensation for talent, constantly making the discussion about rates and how to improve that situation, as well as how to protect new talent from predatory coaching services.
We call them demo mills or demo factories, which is, regardless of how well you’re progressing through a VO curriculum, by the time you’ve taken four, six, eight classes, then you have a demo, whether or not you’re ready for it, whether or not you’re competitive. So you could be wasting a whole lot of time, energy, and money on something that’s not going to further your career at all.
Yeah, makes a lot of sense. Now, one of the things I wanted to talk about, another group I need to thank, are basically where I got my start, and that’s Edge Studio. I went to them for my initial coaching because I was worried about going to someone who was a demo male and might not have my best interest at heart.
What I liked about them the most was they had an introductory class where I was able to get together for an hour and they called it Trying On Voice Over.
Investigate Voice Over?
That’s it, Investigate Voice Over. So I tried that out, and they never called me again. And I said, that’s the kind of group I like because they’re not pressuring me.
I did investigate another coach that I don’t want to name, but they’d call me like every day and said, are you ready to sign up yet? Are you ready to sign up yet? And that was really off-putting.
So you want to look for a coach who definitely has your best interest at heart.
That’s interesting to hear about Edge because I had a little bit of a different experience. I did that as well. And they called me and were like, Yeah, you’re great for voiceover.
Now let us try and hook you with our $1,700 coaching and demo production package. So they were a little bit salesy for me. Oh really?
Yeah, that was my experience. And I feel like any business will probably try and encourage their staff to use that kind of script. So I don’t blame them that much.
I will say I didn’t wait very long to make my decision. Like anything, I was champing at the bit, so I waited two weeks. So maybe if I had waited longer, they would have called me, but after two weeks, I was ready to make my decision.
No, I think that was timely. It shouldn’t have taken that long. But yeah, I’m glad you had a great experience with them.
They did my first demo, and it landed me with my first couple of agents. Well, all my agents, honestly, and that’s where I want to take this next. I want to thank all of my wonderful agents.
Thank your agents. Tip your agents.
Starting with Pat Yorks.
Edible arrangements.
Exactly. So starting with Pat Yorks at Agency Connects in Philadelphia, Susie de Santiago in Chicago, Sheila Erickson in Utah, Salt Lake City, the fine folks at IBG, the International Voice Group in London, and EDM Worldwide.
Very cool.
Oh, sorry, I forgot. Refinery Artist Management in Vancouver, Canada, and Rebecca Strom in particular was my agent up there.
Very nice.
Thank you, agents.
Just remember, like you were saying before, two-way streak. Follow up and maintain good relationships with your agents.
Indeed. And thank them. It’s Thanksgiving.
Send them a turkey or something. Or some cranberry sauce.
You know, the shipping costs alone.
Yeah. Well, they could fly there, right?
Yeah.
As God is my witness. So Sean, anyone else you want to thank?
What we were talking about before, because we had such an amazing experience at MAVO, people like Val Kelly or Anne Gangusa and Gerald Griffith, people who go out of their way, who build funds for voice over conferences, because they’re trying to make an amazing event for voice over talent all over the world now. I mean, when we went to VO Atlanta, I came from Japan. We had people coming from South America.
These events truly have reached a global international scale. A lot of people wonder what’s the benefit? Is this going to have a direct impact on my bookings?
It might, but they’re wonderful experiences. They’re very validating, invigorating experiences. So, if you can go to a local one, or you can afford to go to one of the larger ones that they have each year, then by all means, you should work it into your budget.
At least once. Give it a try. See if it’s something you like.
But anyways, these people always work so hard and pour so much blood, sweat and tears into these events. And they really do deserve our thanks and praise, I think.
And we really appreciate it.
That’s pretty much everything I’m thankful for this year. So I guess that brings us to the end of our little Thanksgiving special. And what I’m noticing here is we have this theme of being grateful for people, whether they be your friends, your family, your mentors, the people who come to you for help, and the very amazingly supportive community that we call Voice Over.
Yeah, I agree. At the end of the day, the business really is just about relationships and how you deal with people, and that’s what makes it so much fun and such a great place to be.
Well said. So I don’t know about you, but I’m going to curl up with a turkey sandwich and beer and enjoy this wet Washington evening.
Oh, you got some rain up there?
Always.
Yeah, thankfully we’re dry here, but extremely cold. Winter came in extremely fast. It was 60 degrees on Saturday, and now it’s 30.
So maybe we’ll have a white Thanksgiving. My kids would love that. So happy Thanksgiving to you and yours, Sean.
Thank you very much. You have a great Thanksgiving, Paul.
And everybody out there in VO land, happy Thanksgiving.
On three. One, two, three.
Happy Thanksgiving, everybody.
Happy Thanksgiving, guys. Thanks for listening to The VO Meter, Measuring Your Voice Over Progress. To follow along, please visit www.vometer.com.