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The VO Meter… Measuring Your Voice Over Progress. Hi, everyone.
Welcome to episode 11 of The VO Meter.
Measuring Your Voice Over Progress.
We have a super exciting show coming up. We are basically like kids in a candy store because we are interviewing two of our idols, basically, George Whittam and Dan Lenard, from VOBS, formerly the East West Audio Body Shop. We watch their show every week.
We’re in the chat room contributing. They, I like to say they taught me everything I know, and I’m just so excited to get to that interview.
I am too. George and Dan have been very generous with their time and have agreed to come on our set after being on theirs. Was it two months ago?
Yeah, about that.
Very cool. Yeah, so I hope you guys are interested in a gear-centric episode because that’s what these guys are all about.
Yeah, it got a little geeky, but that’s okay.
Yeah, a little bit, a little bit. Len, we’re raising the sophistication of our podcast.
Exactly.
But with that, let’s talk about some current events. Do you have anything exciting that you wanna talk about, Paul?
I do, actually. I mentioned last episode that I had taken on a long title or just finished a long title under a pseudonym, and I went looking for some more work under a said pseudonym, and I just landed a six-book series that’ll be coming out in the next couple of months. I’m working on the first one now.
They’re all about an hour to an hour and a half, short stories in the same genre. So those will be coming out shortly. Again, if you’d like to go check it out, listen to episode 10 with the little Easter egg about how you can find the pseudonym.
Do that, and you can look me up on Audible.
Now I just can’t get that theme song out of my head.
Which one’s that?
He’s the man with the name that you want to touch.
Oh, right, you’re right, right.
But you mustn’t touch.
And then I have another client on Freelancer who is sending me an audio book every two weeks. And I have one of those coming out this week and another one I should be working on starting tomorrow. And then finally I have a client today who has sent me the first of what is supposed to be a 30,000 hour English lesson job.
30,000 hour?
Right, I should explain it’s an ensemble where sort of like the work I’ve been doing with you, actually, there’s several different narrators playing different parts for English language learning for non-English speakers. And I’m doing one of the roles. So I don’t know exactly how many lines it’ll be, but it’s supposed to be 30,000 hours total.
It’s a job out of India. And I’m working on it obviously remotely and did the first job today in a small piece and we’ll see how the rest goes over the next couple of months.
Very cool. I mean, it’s nice to have a giant, gantic gig like that that you can rely on. That’s very cool.
Yeah, unfortunately, I didn’t bill at that rate. So it’s not like it, and there’s no retainer. So it’s not like it’s a guarantee.
So I’m hoping that they’ll keep me on and they’ll like what they hear, but it sort of remains to be seen. I have to make sure I do a good job, which I always do with my clients, but especially this time, because that carried out there with so much extra work.
Very cool, and if they need a young 20 to 40-something-year-old voice, just let me know.
I will let you know for sure. Although I watched the… They have a scratch track with a computerized voice, and I watched the video today, and there’s like seven women characters and me.
So I don’t know what that means.
Lucky man.
So what’s going on with you?
Well, last episode, we were talking about when I went out to Seattle to get some professional headshots made for my new agent, and I finally got those back, and they look awesome. I try not to be too vain about it, but I posted some of my favorites on Facebook, and I got 200 responses that ranged from the hilarious to the downright raunchy.
Yeah, I participated in some of those as well.
What was that?
I participated in some of those comments as well.
That’s right. But I mean, largely they were all positive. It was pretty hilarious.
Yeah, I saw them too. I think they look great.
Well, thank you very much. A lot of my friends were like, you’re a lot handsomer in these than I remember you being. And so, I’m like, really?
I saw you like three weeks ago. And so, I don’t know.
That’s not where they saw you. I mean, I was talking to you offline about how the last time I saw you in person was at VO Atlanta, where you were basically on no sleep and tearing your hair out over the challenge.
Just drenched in sweat and emaciated and like bags under my eyes.
Falling up a stairwell. So, you definitely didn’t look as good as you do when you’re all coiffed and taking headshots.
Well rested and cleaned up.
Yeah. That’s great. Congrats on those.
They really came out great.
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.
So, Michael Doucet out of Seattle did a really good job on those. Other than that, I’ve just got my monthly e-learning project that I’m working on right now. Just sent some scripts to you this week, actually.
I just finished some huge narration projects that I was working for this lovely German production company. We have a very nice rapport going so far. But this was 31 individual scripts, about half hour each.
Yeah, it was a pretty long project. But the rate was very nice as well. And they were a pleasure to work with.
So, hopefully they will come back for more.
Now, did you do those all at once and then split them up later? Or did you record them all individually?
I usually do it in a couple of sessions. I focus on long form mainly. So I do try to record long stints for an hour or two and then just kind of divide it up later.
If I’m smart, usually I’ll start and stop and record individual files just for archiving purposes. But you can do the same thing in twisted way, just using the markers and the split by markers feature.
Yeah, that’s kind of what I was thinking. I’ve done similar work in the past where I use that exact feature, put the marker in, split by marker, and it will put them all in the same folder for you with that file name convention that you create. It’s really awesome.
It is very awesome. And Dan Lenard actually has some great tips about getting very specific with how you arrange your markers so it’s like everything has the same amount of opening of room tone and everything is uniform. And it’s very cool.
You should definitely check it out.
Awesome. Well, we will get to our main topic and our interview with Dan and George in just a minute. But first, why don’t you tell us about our VO Meter Stick this week?
So up next, we have the very talented Jack DiGoglia. You might know Jack as the incredibly talented transcripter for the VOBS podcasting episodes. Like he’ll watch these episodes and write very detailed notes and transcriptions, including time codes of interesting things that happen in a given episode.
So as my workloads increased, I can’t watch these episodes as consistently as I used to. So I’m very grateful to Jack for always providing these detailed, just wonderful write-ups of the episode. And if I read them and I really like what it was about, I’ll still go back and watch it.
I don’t care. So thank you, Jack. That is a great volunteer service that you’re offering us.
This is a slightly different VO Meter Stick than we usually do in that Jack has actually sent us a series of bloopers from some of his audiobook recording sessions. So without further ado, take it away Jack with our VO Meter shtick.
Okay, everybody, it’s time for the VO Meter shtick. What did he say? It’s time for the VO…
Oh, never mind. The VO Meter shtick? Oh, got it.
He touched Coulter’s cheek. He touched Cotter’s neck. Judy countered as she paused to push her thick glasses back up her nose.
As she paused to push her thick glasses back up on her nose. Her pace failed. Her face paled.
Hiding his hands in his trembling hands. With an amused look in his eyes and a well-modulated tone to his voice that carried a hint of condensation. That carried a hint of condescension.
Emergency medical personnel transported the city to city hospital under heavy escort. Several minutes passed and his version became blurred. Hoffmeyer grabbed a set of cufflinks from his belt.
Hoffmeyer grabbed a set of handcuffs from his belt. She held up her two favorite Barbie dolls. They look like the beach.
They like the beach. The Huey was painted in drab olive. The Huey was painted in olive drab and had seen better days.
Server virtualization is a mythology of dividing the resources of a computer. Server virtualization is a methodology of dividing the resources of a computer. He pulled the hair off her forehead.
He pushed the hair off her forehead. This pre-Columbian artifact is made with such intimacy. This pre-Columbian artifact is made with such intricacy.
He had a preposterous gut that spilled out over his belt. He had a prosperous gut that spilled out over his belt. Nazar al-Bayati supported a heavy brush of a mustache.
Nazar al-Bayati supported a heavy brush of a mustache. They were all chanting among themselves. They were all chatting among themselves.
Flocked wallpaper, brass wall scones, brass wall sconces, her head gently cradling her son’s head, her hand gently cradling her son’s head. You’re looking at images from the side scan solar system. You’re looking at images from the side scan sonar system.
The Sphinx is southwest of the Great Period. The Sphinx is southwest of the Great Pyramid. As lunchtime approached…
As lunchtime approached… Willie’s second tug pulled her through the side of the garage. Willie’s second tug pulled her through the side door of the garage.
By three years of age, a child’s speech skills and vocabulary. By three years of age, a child’s speech skills and vocabulary. Mr. Javier asks them if there were any new words in the book they don’t have on their P-list yet.
Speak freely.
Thank you, Jack, those were hilarious. Something I hadn’t thought of, creating your own personal blooper reel. Good stuff.
So believe it or not, we actually do not have a questionable gear purchase this week. I know our fans are going to clamor for it, but I managed to not buy anything stupid this week.
Pretty much the same for me too. I have some knickknacks and just minor purchases that I have varying levels of satisfaction with, but nothing to bore or like to tell your ears off. So no questionable gear purchase this week, folks.
Sorry.
I was also a little scared that Dan and George would yell at me. So I tried to restrain myself at least this week while we talk to them, and hopefully it’ll go over well.
Well, they might anyways. I don’t know if they like poking fun, but who knows? Maybe they can tell us about some of their questionable gear purchases.
That’d be awesome, yeah.
All right, but speaking of Dan and George, we’re sure that you guys are chomping at the bit to get to hear what they have to say about all things audio. So without further ado, here are Dan and George. All right, we are moving on into our Source Connect Now studio, and I am very excited to have these two upstanding gentlemen.
They have over 200, that’s 275 episodes of their East West Audio Body Shop slash Voice Over Body Shop podcast. They’ve had agents, celebrity voice talent, anyone under the sun that’s related to VO, you name it. We have the home studio master, Dan Lenard, and the audio engineer of the stars, George Whittam.
How are you guys doing?
Fabulous, great to be here, guys.
Yeah, man, it’s really fun to join you. Fun to join you guys here today.
All right, and we are so excited to have you. So we’ve got a lot of questions, and Paul, why don’t you start off with that?
Well, guys, we are big fans, as we talked about in the show, but we may have some people that may not be as familiar with your show and your individual backgrounds. And I thought maybe we could start by just talking a little bit about how you got started and some of the things that brought you to where you are today. And actually, if we talk about backgrounds, we have a lot in common.
George, I don’t know if I ever told you this, but my wife went to Virginia Tech at the same time you did. I think it overlapped by three out of the four years. And my brother-in-law was the exact same year as you were there.
And Dan, I sold insurance for a while, which is something I know you got into and got out of quickly. There’s a lot of commonalities there. And I was wondering if you could just talk about where you started and how you’ve gotten to the point you are now with your businesses and the show.
All right, well, you know, I’ve been in broadcasting. I started like in 1975. Yes, there was human beings on this planet back then.
No one was alive then.
I was in radio and television until about 1992. And then I sold insurance, life health, long-term care, disability insurance, broke a few telephones trying to do all this stuff for all that.
Got your Series 7 in 66?
I did. And then, and I did sell mutual funds and things along those lines and annuities. But I hated it.
So I got out of that. And my mother-in-law, bless her heart, suggested that perhaps I go back to school and teach high school what I really loved, which was social studies. And US history and the Constitution.
And I did. When I was 40 years old, I went back to college, got my teaching degree, and ended up teaching in our public schools for three years and really enjoyed teaching, despised the very ground that administrators and other people, you know, they’re horrible. I mean, there are some wonderful people in education, but…
As an institution, you’re saying.
As an institution, it’s pretty bad.
Not narrowing it down to anybody in particular.
Well, I could narrow it down to a couple of people in particular. We won’t mention any names, and they’re not in Voice Over and they would never know this. I ever said this.
That’s every teacher, by the way.
Yeah, but I tend to think that our educational system was run by a bunch of insane Marxists who really were hell-bent on making sure that this country got completely dumbed down. So when you tell kids, hey, you know, you can be something, they don’t like you telling them that. It’s kind of interesting.
Anyway, education and I obviously split ways around 19, or in 2001, and I found myself at home finishing up my master’s degree and a project that I did got me involved in recording again and doing voiceover again. And I just checked out to see what was going on in voiceover. And voiceover was in 2003, was really just starting to take off as far as an internet business was concerned.
So I had the chance to really get ride the front crest of the wave on that. But because I had experience working in radio studios and recording studios, setting up the proper environment for proper recording was a real simple thing for me and using the right equipment. And people started…
I would list it… Back in the early days of online forums and stuff, I would start to type in things and people started to notice that I was commenting on it and they started writing me questions. And after about a year of spending a long time writing questions or answering questions, the missus said, you know, you really should hang out a shingle.
You can’t take 30 years of experience and just sort of like dole it out for free. And so about 2005, I started becoming the home studio master and been doing it ever since. And it’s always fun to teach people.
Having my master’s degree in education, I apparently am able to relate fairly, what is seemingly complex to make it a little bit more simple. George?
Oh, whoa.
Remember, you’re here too. He’s only heard that story about 30, 40 times.
Well, my background is really in music. And then I studied music at Virginia Tech, got a degree in recording and audio engineering and music performance and a minor in communications. I did radio in college, just for the hell of it.
I was on AM and FM and didn’t think much of it. I just thought it was fun. It was an activity.
It was neat to be on the air, but I wasn’t thinking of it as a career in broadcasting at all. I was really focused on recording. That’s what I wanted to do.
At graduation…
Can I pause you for a second? You said a minor in performance. What was your instrument you played?
I have a major in music, and I have a minor in telecommunications.
Oh, sorry.
But my music performance, I played trumpet.
Oh, I didn’t know that.
Oh, I did too.
That’s another commonality. I have a trumpet sitting right outside the whisper room.
My dad’s still an active musician. George A. Whittam in the chat room is still being…
He calls himself Brass Lips sometimes.
Yeah, I was the exact opposite in undergrad. I was a communications major and a music minor.
I love it, man. There was a lot of commonalities.
Funny.
And I just never was big into performance. I hated practicing. That’s probably the big problem.
So I was in engine engineering. I started a recording business in 1997 with my dad called Eldorado Recording Services, which was built into an Eldorado RV. You ever see those tan and brown striped aluminum siding chunker RVs you see in Venice, California along the side of the road?
I used to have one of those with a studio in it. That is awesome. And it was for doing remotes and stuff.
It was a lot of fun, didn’t make any money, burned a lot of money, but my dad was very supportive. He thought it was really cool and fun. Recorded a bunch of stuff, but then decided it was time to move to LA.
Came out in 2004 after three years of doing radio broadcast for the Eagles Radio Network for football. That was where I got the…
E-A-G-L-E-S, Eagle… Eagles!
Yeah, that’s where I got to spend some time in real broadcasting, doing real stuff where actually people were listening and…
Did you work with Meryl Rees?
I did.
I worked with… This is Meryl Rees.
And you’re listening to 94WYSP.
And I worked with that guy for a couple years. For our fans that don’t know, he’s the classic voice of the Eagles for the last like 50 years. He’s amazing.
Yeah, he’s been there a long time. He’s like the Harry… Is it the Harry…
Harry Carrey?
Harry Carrey.
Harry Carrey was the fifth.
The very… The Vin Scully of the…
Yeah, you know, those guys that have been doing this forever, that’s him. Anyway, left that world after three years and came out here, started doing answering ads on Craigslist for film production sound mixing, because I figured that was the way to make a living here. At this point, Voice Over was still not really on the radar.
I had helped with setting up one studio in Philadelphia and just, that was it, you know, it was just me helping out a buddy. Moved out here, did that film production stuff for a while, started getting a referral or two from an agent, actually a manager named Jason Marks, because I had helped out that one voice actor, his name’s Howard Parker. I call him my client zero.
Ground zero.
Yeah, he’s like client zero. He’s the origin of the disease. And he’s still a very successful…
Yeah, very successful voice actor to this day. But, and then he referred me to his manager, his manager started referring me clients. Somewhere along the way, Connection led me to Don LaFontaine, worked with him for a few years.
And then not long after Don passed away, Dan and I met at… Maybe it was around the time or a little bit before. Dan and I met at…
Yeah, we met at…
We met in 2008.
2008. I met Don in 2007.
Yes. Yeah, Dan and I met at Voice 2007.
And then you and I met at 2008.
Correct. Dan helped me out. I was doing my first presentation in front of people live about Voice Over, ever.
And Dan helped me on the fly, dumb it down, so it didn’t glaze everybody’s eyeballs over in the room. And well, we hit it off ever since. I mean, we just stayed friends after that.
So how did that lead into the show itself?
Well, we started doing a few things together online. Remember, we did a webinar, I think, for one of the pay to play services.
Oh, we did.
Yes.
I forgot about that.
Yeah, hey, it was like seven, eight years ago.
So that was the first thing we did together.
Together, and we collaborated on that. And then we did a workshop at the Don LaFontaine Lab. Yes, we did.
Because my mother lives out here in California, and we would come out here a lot, and so I’d come visit George, and we’re like, hey, why don’t we do an all-day workshop? Or was it a two-day workshop?
I think so.
I think it was a two-day workshop. And that was a lot of fun, working with a lot of people that we knew and a few fresh faces. And then how this came about is, originally, we were thinking, yeah, we should probably just do a, everybody is doing podcasting these days.
Maybe we should do a podcast about Voice Over Studios. And then I’m not sure why we decided to do it as a TV show. I think it’s because you thought you could.
We were talking about how we love car talk. That was part of it as well. Remember the car talk show?
I mean, it was the way the report of those guys had, and they made it really funny and fun. And we’re like, we could do that. Maybe people would want to listen to that.
So we wanted to do it live. We knew that. We wanted to do it live.
We didn’t want to have to edit it and post. That was a big… We’re like, if we’re gonna do this and commit to it and do it every week, we can’t have a lot of post time.
So that’s why we did it live. And since we’re doing it live at the time, when did we start, 2000?
March 11th, 2011. March 22nd, 2011.
Man, I’m so glad I have Dan.
Yeah, that’s about all I remember.
He has a memory. But, and I was like, well, we’re gonna do this audio, but then we’re gonna have our webcams. Let’s just have them anyway.
And at the time, Ustream was the only way I knew how to stream it live. So we were like, let’s just turn on our cameras. It was really incidental.
The cameras were really not the focus. It was more about the audio, but the video stuck. And I’m regretting it ever since.
Because it just gets more and more complex.
It’s so complicated.
And then we did it for five years. I was in… Remotely, I was in Buffalo.
George was in Santa Monica. And occasionally we would get together, which was always a lot of fun, especially when we would get at FAFCon or something, and we would have a live audience.
The VO Peeps, we did it at one time?
Twice we did it there, yeah. We did the anniversary show there, and then we were over at the VO Peeps. There’s like 40, 50 people at that.
You guys actually built a booth in Anne’s room.
Oh, yes. That was great. That’s a classic video.
That is classic.
And actually that booth, I think somebody else is using that now.
It will live on.
It lives on, as does the studio suit that it was based around. And then for a number of reasons, my family had to move out here. It had to.
We really wanted to, but we had a good excuse to come out to California. And now George and I are 20 minutes apart. And…
There’s a no brainer to do it here.
To do it here.
Because Dan has a studio.
Yeah, the studio here is really nice. It’s cool.
Well, you really lucked out on a house too. I mean, I know you guys had a very specific criteria for it, but wow, it’s a gorgeous studio and house. So well done, Dan.
Well, thank you.
Yeah, I mean, they nailed it. Being in LA, your chances of finding a house with a studio are slightly increased.
Well guys, I know you didn’t want to rehash that story, but even though I’ve watched all the episodes, there’s still some great nuggets in there that I didn’t know about and I’ll bet our fans will appreciate. But we would like to move into some of the more juicy questions we had. So Sean, I know you want to start us off with a question you had for the guys.
Well, yeah, I mean, both of you have been working with recording and broadcast technology for decades. What are some of the biggest innovations you’ve seen that still kind of blow your mind?
Innovations that have blow our minds.
Well, I mean, the first…
Dan’s been around longer, so there’s more innovations that he has seen than I have.
There was the advent of magnetic tape.
And then DAT, and then…
Internet.
Yeah, well, yeah, the internet is clearly, that’s the most mind blowing thing.
Absolute game changer, right?
It is, and it’s really what makes the voice over business what it is today. And it’s, that more than anything else is really driving what goes on and how people communicate. And the fact that people are communicating using the internet is what’s driving the voice over business because everything has to be narrated or somebody has to physically talk about something.
It’s created more opportunities and more talent all at the same time.
Yeah, well, opportunities, talent is another question.
Talented parties.
Yeah, it’s a plural talent. Yeah, it’s an actual name of something.
But I don’t know, in terms of like, you’re probably thinking more of technology, I’m assuming, Paul. Is that what you mean?
Gear? That was actually Sean’s question, but…
Oh, yeah. Oh, Sean, sorry. And it could be like, but that was something that I hadn’t considered.
And it actually kind of moves on to my next question. How do you guys, because of the internet, people are allowed to do this from home, how do you feel about the fact that a home studio is pretty much a given necessity now?
We think it’s absolutely freaking fantastic.
From our perspective, it’s people that make a living designing, setting up, troubleshooting, you know, all that stuff, sooth saying.
Yeah, and teaching people how to use it. It’s fabulous for us.
It’s a good thing for us.
Because honestly, well, go ahead.
No, I mean, you can speak to it from a voice actor’s perspective. For me, my entire business is based on the fact that people have to have a home studio. I would not do what I do without it, from a voice actor’s perspective.
Well, from a voice actor’s perspective, it’s tremendously, you know, it gives you a tremendous amount of freedom. It allows you to be, you know, an entrepreneur, you know, that sort of thing. So, but you have to know, it’s one of those important pieces of your voice over business.
You know, you’ve got to be a good business person, understand marketing and bookkeeping. You have to have talent. You’ve got to be a good voice actor because there’s no room for not knowing what you’re doing because, you know, your auditions are going to get round filed when they listen to The Slate.
And it’s important to have a good sounding home studio that you have rapid access to. And not something it’s like, oh, I got to take it down. I got to set it up again, take it down.
You want some, you want a permanent recording space that’s dedicated in your place of residence. And whether it’s an apartment, you know, your home, you know, a motel out on Route 66 somewhere, you’ve got to have that. And you’ve got to know how to use it right.
There’s a few basic things that if you understand, you can succeed at it. But you’ve got to understand what’s behind those basics. And that’s generally what George and I like to teach.
I mean, we physically set things up, but we like teaching people how to use it. Although I don’t know, maybe you don’t teach them as much. So in case something goes wrong, you’re the one they have to call.
I know you guys are far more noble than that. But since we’re on the topic of education, what are some sort of misconceptions that you are always trying to steer, like a new talent away from?
You need a mic preamp. Yeah, you need a TLM 103.
You need a tube mic preamp.
Tubes, yeah, I want to use tubes. Why?
You need a mixer.
Yeah, you need a mixer. You need…
You need a compressor.
Yeah, front-end processing. I got an Apex 286. It’s like, why?
Just the other day, I told someone to unhook their Apex channel from their system.
I do it all the time. Yeah, it happens to me at least once a week. And the thing that we do, and as troubleshooters, and the way you troubleshoot, and I learned this from Mr. Soman, my eighth grade power mechanic shop teacher.
You gotta ask questions and you gotta go in the order of how things work. And maybe we don’t think about that, but troubleshooting is, why are you doing this? Why are you doing that?
So most of these questions are very cart before the horse mentality is what you’re saying.
Exactly. A lot of people are getting information off the internet and YouTube. And the factor I like to mention is that, somebody may be an expert in a home studio, their own.
And the fact of the matter is, every room is different, every voice is different. People talk louder, people talk softer, the materials, the room that you’re recording in is different. And there is no one set thing to make something, to make your audio up to a professional standard in that particular room.
And it really has to be done in a customized way.
Well, with that in mind, I know how you guys like to keep it simple. What would you say are the bare minimums somebody needs in order to start a home studio?
I mean, quiet.
What?
I mean, quiet is expensive.
Ultimately.
Yeah, it can be very expensive unless you live in the boonies and you just start it out somewhere really, really quiet. Yeah, if you happen to live in a very quiet area in a quiet home with no animals and children and a very quiet air conditioner, Or furnace, depending on where you are. Whatever it is, then you’re lucky.
You’re like way ahead of the game because noise is the enemy of recording. And it’s, yes, there is software that takes noise out pretty effectively, but still to this day, we really wanna have clean audio and noise is the problem. So if you start out with a place that’s quiet, the rest is gravy because you can get, and I’m gonna say it right now, a USB microphone that will sound really freaking good.
We’ve done USB microphone shootouts and I know that they can sound good. I’m not saying it’s the way to go, but for some people who are really technologically averse, which seems to be everybody. Like we know for a fact that Maurice LaMarche uses an Apogee mic in his walk-in closet, right?
He told us that on the show.
And his car, yes.
And holding in his hands.
Yes, yeah, this is happening.
But he’s Maurice LaMarche, he can get away with that.
Well, I mean, that’s something else to talk about, but I mean, a USB mic or a very affordable Audio-Technica mic, I don’t think there’s a mic from the Audio-Technica line that is bad. Like even the least expensive…
The 2020 can be a little noisy.
It’s okay, it’s not the…
You go up to the 2035, and I’ve been recommending that to people.
The non-USB ones. Right, yes. The USB stuff can be a little noisy.
Non-USB, you can start with a 20 or a 2035, I love. That’s one I really like to recommend. In fact, I made a custom package with B&H that has a 2035 and the interface is a Steinberg UR12, which is like 80 bucks.
And that’s a really clean starter setup that works beautifully well. And then a good, decent pair of headphones.
And like we were talking about before, a lot of people, they want to reach for the industry standards like the 103s and stuff like that, but that setup’s already past $1,000. You just listed off a $200 setup that sounds perfectly professional.
Right. In the right environment.
Right, in the right environment. Yes, yes, exactly. So that can be as inexpensive or as expensive as you make it.
Right, well, I’m of the belief, and I repeat this a trillion times a week, is that 95% of the quality of your audio is dependent on the acoustical signature of the room that you recorded. Absolutely. And it’s not the microphone.
And another 20%, we’re gonna have 130% when we’re done with this, but another 20% is the mic technique, placement and technique.
Right. And those are the factors that really affect audio. And when you say words like industry standard, my immediate reaction is, what industry are you talking about?
Yeah, and if you’re talking, I think people have a big misconception, especially if they are experienced talent but haven’t recorded on their own before, they think that they have to have a nice room with a couch and guitars hanging on the wall and windows and a couple of fabulous babes hanging out or whatever it is that goes on in a recording studio.
Yeah, those commercial studios are there to impress the client and really wow them and make them feel good about spending $300 an hour for studio time. And your home studio is designed to do one job really well and that is make you sound really clean, accurate, and well, as Dan says, like you, sound like you.
And I think people get, they have a misconception about what it is that they’re trying to do. And the fact of the matter is, is nobody needs to see how the sausage is made. They only hear it.
That’s right. I love the sausage making analogy. It’s one of my favorites.
It makes complete sense.
And is there a point guys where having what’s so called an industry standard is actually a bad idea? Because my personal situation, you may have heard the last episode, I got a TLM 103 in here with me and it was a mess because it was way too sensitive and did not work at all for my space.
Right.
Right.
When you’re using a mic like that, that was designed for being used in a studio environment, you know, really high end productions. It is extremely sensitive and it has a pretty wide pickup pattern. So you have to have a good room, very low noise to get a good sound out of that mic in most cases.
The other air quotes again in his true standard mic is the Sennheiser 416. But that became an industry standard because of the use of it in promo by Ernie Anderson in the 70s. And that mic just sort of stuck around because of his use of that mic in the 70s.
And it was just became the Hollywood promo mic and trailer mic.
It just has some interesting mic technique that’s involved to make it sound good. And you have to be extremely on mic. You can’t get sloppy with mic placement and get off to the side and it sounds really bad really quick.
So those are two mics that have arguably become industry standards, at least in the promo trailer commercial world. But it doesn’t require those kind of mics to get good voice over recordings.
It’s not in the least. And it’s not the mic. There’s no microphone out there that enhances your performance.
There’s nothing that’s going to… You’re going to turn on the mic and suddenly you sound like Jon Hamm. It’s just not that you can’t read like or sound like Jon Hamm, yet people believe that.
Because they watch YouTube and then it’s like, well, this is the best mic for voice… There’s no such thing as the best or… From my point of view and probably from George’s, there is the worst and then there’s everything else.
There’s a lot of bad mics, which we don’t need to get into the bad mics, but there are definitely a number of bad ones that just don’t work. I’m going to name one, because it’s been a punching bag for years. The Blue Snowball.
Oh, the Snowball.
It’s a pretty bad USB mic. But let’s also have some context. It’s also one of the first.
Right.
I don’t know if it’s the first. I think the Samson…
The CO1U was the first….
is maybe the first. They’re both rather lousy, but they’re also over 10 years old, I think, now, in terms of when they were designed.
I had one in 2006.
Yeah.
And people are still buying them for some reason.
Because they’re sold at like Apple stores.
And Best Buy and… Yeah, for nothing. Yeah.
You know what’s fantastic, and you guys heard it, is that that Blue Raspberry, as far as the USB mic goes?
There’s an example of evolution of technology, right? The Snowball, old technology, noisy, no proper gain control. The Blue Raspberry is an evolution of an evolution of USB mics.
They’ve had many, many mics in between those two. Yeah. And the Raspberry is like…
Again, I haven’t tried them. We haven’t gotten one yet to try, but I know you have, Paul.
So Blue is listening, which please send this one.
Send this one over. We’ll give it the rundown.
I’ll take another.
It’s a great mic. It’s a really surprisingly good mic, if you know how to use it.
Yeah. In fact, last week, I had a directed session where I used it because I was messing around with my gear and wasn’t set up with the interface. So I used the Blue Raspberry that was sitting right there in the booth and the client loved it and it’s on the web right now.
There you go.
Go for it.
If the mic is low noise and it’s reasonably accurate, you’re good. Put it in a good booth or a good acoustical space, put it in the right spot and talk.
Yep.
You’re good. There we go. That’s it.
Good night, everybody. Can we sell that last sentence for $9.99?
Sean, you had some questions about industry events, didn’t you?
Oh, yeah. So I was just curious because I know you guys love going to NAMM and NAB and other conferences with lots of new innovative audio tech. Is there anything that’s coming out this year that you’re really excited about?
Well, it’s expensive stuff, and whether it’s relevant to Voice Over or not… I mean, to geeks like us, especially George, he loves going to that stuff because it’s cool and it’s fun and it’s at a very professional level. And if somebody’s at a professional level, that kind of gear is kind of cool.
Well, I’m going to name one thing that if it wasn’t so dang expensive, I would tell everybody to go out and buy this thing, and I’ll back that up with an actual review of the product when I get one because, again, I don’t like to cold, like just write out and out, say, buy this thing until I’ve really used it.
Can I guess what it is, George?
Go.
Ahead. Is it the MixPre, the sound devices?
We were very impressed by that.
That’s not what I was going to say, actually. It’s really awesome. The thing that was the most innovative to me and the most amazing was the Yellowtech, it’s called the PUC Mike Lea.
It’s a weird name. It’s made in Germany.
Is it like a mounting system, right?
No, no, not at all. The PUC is an acronym for something. I don’t know what it stands for, but it’s an audio interface.
But what makes it stand alone that I’m aware of is it has the most amazing automatic gain controlling system I’ve ever seen. Normally AGC or auto gain is horrible. It’s not good.
If you’ve ever used a cheesy… Well, actually almost any video camera where the audio goes up and down and the noise gets hissy and then it goes down, you know what I’m talking about about. But this thing intelligently adjusts the gain control on the fly without pumping up and down the background noise.
It’s absolutely amazing technology. Unfortunately it comes at a cost. It’s about, I think, 900 bucks.
There’s judgment after all.
It’s no joke. It’s the standard of college. If they ever decide to license the technology to somebody else, maybe someday in the future they’ll do that and it becomes a $200 unit, it would be just a killer device.
It is really amazing. It will de-stress the voice actor’s job of recording themselves tremendously. You literally set it to auto and that’s it.
You do not have to ever set gain after that. It’s really amazing.
So that’d be extremely useful if you’re doing very different energy reads or styles of reads, like an animation versus an audiobook.
Animation, video games, that sort of thing.
It would be awesome for video games.
Yeah, because usually what you have to do with video games, if you know you’re going to be doing a lot of loud stuff, and I have, the script calls for scream or you’ve got to do something very loud. You’re shouting to somebody across the street. Usually what you’ll do is once you learn good mic technique, you can back off the mic or you can hit like a 10 dB or 20 dB pad on your interface and some mics actually have a 20 dB or 10 dB pad on them.
But that’s something you have to do and you’ve got to plan ahead.
It’s engineering gymnastics. You have to constantly switch your brain from actor to engineer back and forth. It’s a lot to think about.
So you end up setting it… Yeah, well, you end up setting the game something, you end up having to set the game really low. So then it doesn’t clip when you’re yelling.
But then when you’re doing, so get over here, I’m going to rip your brains out. Lines something like that. It’s way down to like minus 30 or something.
And so it’s in the noise. So it’s difficult recording that stuff well. And this is going to make it, the technology like that’s going to make it easier.
But it’s just a little inaccessible. And it’s actually hard to get. It’s only carried by a couple of companies in the US.
It’s very, it’s hard to get. So I’m going to get one and test it out. But the Sound Devices Mix Pre-3, really cool in terms of its feature set, what it can do.
And again, another, you don’t want to test out in the real world, but that thing was really sweet.
Very cool. Well, since you, like, you really get the sense that you guys, you don’t want, like, you understand that everyone has a unique budget and you really kind of, like, you don’t encourage anyone to spend more money than necessary. I’m curious what sort of are your favorite recommendations at both like sort of a budget mind and an aspiration-minded equipment.
It can be mics or interfaces or both.
Well, you know, I mean, we already mentioned that, you know, we both like to tell people, look, you know, an Audio Technica 2035 and, you know, maybe, you know, the… Was it the…
Steinberg UR.
The Steinberg UR thing.
You have some others you like too, right?
Well, I like the Scarlett 2i2.
Still do to this day.
Still do to this day.
Version 2, I hear, is much improved too.
Much improved, I gotta go get one. A Yamaha, if, you know, for people who maybe be doing podcasting, a Yamaha AGO3 or AGO6, which George recommended to me, and I immediately ran over to Banjo Emporium and bought one.
Yeah, we both use those as well.
Yeah, and that’s my at-desk interface, because where I do webinars and stuff like that. It’s important to be able to play audio from your computer into the sound mix that you’re doing.
Back over to GoToMeeting or whatever it is you’re using.
Right, GoToMeeting or Zoom or whatever. And-
For what it does, I haven’t found anything as affordable or easy to use. It’s pretty incredible, actually.
Yeah, and for doing remote sessions, I mean, it’s great. If you’re doing it, you do it by Skype or Zoom or something.
I sent Rick Wasserman to Colorado with an AGO3 and some moving blankets and some PVC pipe. I mean, literally. He has a PVC pipe booth with some blankets, an AGO3 and his trusty Sennheiser 416, and he’s doing his Mad Men.
Well, that show’s not on the air, but whatever AMC thinks… He’s doing all of his AMC stuff from a house in Creed, Colorado, where he’s there for the summer doing Repertory Theater. Wow.
It works.
He was on the show a couple weeks ago when I wasn’t here, but I was on an airplane getting little tidbits of what’s going on on the show, and then he said… It’s my dog walked in and he goes, Tinky.
Even my wife laughed at that one.
He has an awesome voice.
He does. He really does.
Yeah. That’s the entry-level stuff. We mentioned to Mike that there’s the Harlan Hogan VO1A, which we’re using today.
We’re talking into that very, Mike, as we speak to you.
If you want to step up one level from the AT 2035, this is a little more expensive, but a beautiful sounding, really nice sounding microphone.
And Harlan designed it specifically for a voiceover. People don’t realize that most of the equipment that we use was never designed for voiceover. It was designed for recording music.
And it has a workflow. A lot of the software that people use has a workflow for recording music. Oh yeah.
Pro tools. Yeah, pro tools, which we could have an hour long discussion about. And I’ll just recuse myself from that discussion.
Well, I want to start another discussion because you do have some talent who, they start with pro tools and then they fight learning anything else. What do you think is the reasoning for that?
Because once you learn a system, and especially pro tools, which was exceedingly difficult to learn, I mean, there’s a learning curve on there.
It’s designed to be like an old school, multi-track-based studio with walk sends and everything else.
Right, with as many channels as you have. And I went to school to learn how to use a recording studio like that. And there are people who go to college to do it.
And it’s not a skill you learn overnight, and it’s not a skill you learn in a month. It’s a skill you learn over many, many years because there are so many little tidbits to Pro Tools and some of these other multi-channel DAWs.
It’s got a tremendous amount of tools that once you’ve learned to use them and you’ve kind of put them in your muscle memory, it’s very, very hard to abandon those skills or adapt those skills to something else.
Unless you really hate doing all the things that you have to do in Pro Tools.
I mean, if it’s all you know and it’s all you’ve ever used, and you’re good at it, and it’s reliable, and it gets the job done, why change it? But I have changed a lot of clients from Pro Tools. Pro Tools has gotten a lot more reliable over the years.
As of lately, it’s far less problematic than it used to be. Now every time I launch it, it just tends to work, and I have little issues now.
It tends to work?
Yeah, it does work. It does work very reliably now. Pro Tools 12 does.
But it was a real pain in the neck for a really long time. So we were all looking for stuff like Twisted Wave that demystified recording and editing tremendously.
Well, yeah, and I’m actually really grateful for when I decided to get involved with Voice Over because the equipment was far more accessible, and it’s easier to use than ever, and it was right around the time that Twisted Wave was released, and it’s my favorite DAW, easily. It’s just so easy to use.
Yeah, I mean, it has a reduced feature set, clearly. I mean, certainly a lot less features in Pro Tools and Adobe Audition.
But it has everything you need.
It really does have everything you need. I mean, Audition…
And I think it’s a lot more powerful than people realize. Like, you actually take the time to figure out all the features. I know Jack DiGoli has got a wonderful webinar on all the things you can do with it, as do you guys.
Yeah, we both teach it.
Yeah, I mean, I needed it yesterday. I did a very long narration that was about an hour long that had to be cut into 135 different slides.
Twisted wave is perfect.
It’s fabulous. You mark it, you can cut and paste the gaps.
Split by markers.
Split by markers. That’s process. What used to take three hours now takes, it took me an hour to record it, an hour and a half to edit it into that format and go split by markers.
Whoosh! Out the door, my client is thrilled as he can possibly be.
Massive, massive time saver.
Yeah.
We’re big on time saving stuff. I mean, to me, audio quality always is important, right? But next to that, it’s reliability and then how much time is it gonna save you?
You’re not getting paid by the hour, folks, to be voice, to be engineers. You have to be fast.
One of those things that I see a lot is people will send me audio and they’ll send me their chain and they’ll say, well, I record on this and then I transfer to that and then I transfer to this. So I’m like, and you’re doing this, why?
A lot of hoop jumping.
Because it’s efficient.
But if it is, I mean, there occasionally is an argument for using multiple programs and multiple systems that I’ve seen convincing, but most of the time, it’s an unnecessarily number of steps.
Right.
It slows you down.
Circling back to gear one more time, I don’t know if you’ve listened to the show, I think George has-
Paul, are you gear obsessed?
Yeah, that’s where we’re going.
With the questionable purchase of the wing?
Yeah. So have you guys had any questionable gear purchases of your own that you regretted either immediately or after using for a few weeks in your own studios?
That’s a hard question. I mean, George is an engineer and he buys gear, and he plays with it and stuff like that.
Well, I know you guys have to try a lot for your clients too, to test it out and stuff like that.
Things that I’ve, maybe the things that I’ve recommended and regretted later. I recommended WaveLab by Steinberg to one of my clients. And I recommended it to her.
She’s on Windows. And at the time, I thought it was the best simple recording solution. And I used White WaveLab extensively a long time ago.
But then when I have to now teach it to somebody and troubleshoot it, remotely years later, I realized bad choice. It’s great software, it really is, but it’s just in many ways mind-numbingly frustrating. It’s just, it’s very German.
And it’s very… And it’s just overly… It’s basically Twisted Wave took the WaveLab thing and made it Mac friendly and way less complicated to use, and then puts all the right tools in the right places.
WaveLab doesn’t, it’s a little harder to use. So that’s one thing I’m kind of regret recommending.
Yeah, of course, Ocean Audio came out, which is really cool, but that’s not something we would ever regret, because that’s a really cool little program. It’s free. It’s free, which is why we also like it.
It’s free.
Audacity has its back.
Gear wise, I do a lot of research, and I do a lot of testing. I don’t have a lot of regrets, but I used to recommend a DBX 286, which I know you have now, Paul, you’ve been playing with.
Actually, I tore it out, based on…
Oh, you tore it out again.
You finally sold me.
Didn’t it go in and out, then in, again and then out again?
Like the who? The old you now?
Yes, it did, actually.
It’s not a bad piece of… I mean, I used to recommend it pretty widely, but I’ve kind of moved away from that one. Man, I can tell you about video streaming equipment that I don’t recommend anymore.
And that’s a whole nother deal.
I won’t go down that route.
That’s been our current curse.
Well, it appears you guys are just efficient. You’re just too efficient and I’m clearly diseased. So we’ll just leave it at that.
We can’t help you with gas, Gear Acquisition Syndrome. We really can’t help you. If you won’t listen to us, what are we gonna do?
I always listen to you. It just takes several weeks.
I mean, gear is gear. And again, as George said, does it make you more efficient as opposed to, does it change who you are? Does it change you from voice actor A to John Krasinski?
John Krasinski. It’s not gonna do that. It’s got nothing to do with it.
And people are just lost on that. So there’s never been a piece that I’ve regretted having. There’s stupid stuff I bought because it was like cute, but I never intended to use it for Voice Over.
But I know you’ve, because I remember you had a lot of the Apogee stuff too, like the one in the, did you have the duet too?
I never had a duet. I’d like the Apogee mic. I still have mine.
I use it when I’m on the road, if I record on the road.
I know you have very firm opinions about doing it on vacation.
Yeah. And yeah, I’m on vacation. I don’t want to do Voice Over.
I mean, if you can do an audition on your iPhone in your car, who cares? But you’re not going to be able to produce, add to something that you did in your own home studio somewhere else. It can’t be done.
You’re not going to be able to match the ambiance. Even if you’re as good at it as I am, it’s really hard.
I call it the black diamond level of voiceover recording. Trying to do it from a hotel remotely or something. It’s much harder.
Yeah, you can’t do it.
I guess another piece of gear that comes to mind when you mention Apogee, I did use to recommend the Apogee One a lot.
Yeah, that got kind of quirky.
But I found it to be quirky and I didn’t like the little proprietary cable it has, the dongle thing. And then their drivers started to get unstable sometimes and that drove people crazy. It just got too flaky.
And I stopped recommending that thing because of it.
Interesting to note though, but one point about this is that when I was at Voice 2010, I think, and I met the president of Apogee and I had a One and I really liked it. I was running it through the Eureka without the compressor and he was just using that as an interface. And as a preamp.
And he’s like, you know, we spent hundreds of thousands of dollars developing the preamp inside the One, go naked. And I’m like, excuse me?
So he was one of the first guys that really said to you, plug your mic into this thing.
Right, just plug…
And listen.
Right, just plug the mic in.
I won’t argue with that. The Apogee preamps and converters are stellar. Like they really are a gold standard.
You know, no doubt about it.
And so my belief is that you don’t need any front-end processing, just a good preamp interface and your microphone. And that should be the extent of your chain. And every time we pull people away from front-end processing or a channel strip, like an Apex, it just makes such a dramatic difference in their audio.
And usually it’s like, God, it sounds better.
And there’s sanity.
Yeah.
It sounds different. But like you were saying, I know you’re always like, get the gear that makes you sound like you. Not that makes you sound better or your best self.
Like we want accuracy, not flattery.
Right. That’s who they’re hiring you for you. What is unique about you?
Not, you know, does your booth sound better than this guy’s booth? And the booths don’t sound good. Booths just exist to make you sound like you.
If that makes any sense.
No, it makes perfect sense to me anyway.
Drop the mic.
Yeah.
Don’t drop the mic.
Nevermind.
All right, so thanks again, George and Dan for being here with us today. Before you leave, how can people get ahold of you if they want to use your services?
Well, they can, you know, my website is homevoiceoverstudio.com and I’ve got a contact button there that you can, you know, email me directly. But I also have the Specimen Collection Cup. And it’s actually, you go to the page, it’s like, son of a gun, it’s the Specimen Collection Cup.
If you want to send me some raw audio, five seconds of open mic silence, read something and give me 10 seconds of silence, open mic, so I can hear how you’re addressing the mic, hear the acoustics in the room, hear how much background noise you have. And if I think it sounds great, I will tell you so, and I do on occasion.
Refrigerators running?
Oh, refrigerators?
It’s like, I now know the difference between what a refrigerator in the next room sounds like in a ceiling fan or an air conditioner. It’s amazing the noises that dribble into people’s homes. And if you look at it on a spectrograph, you can generally tell what it is, whether it’s electronic or whether it’s something mechanical.
But you can send me a specimen if I think you need some help. Then we can set up a consultation and we’ll get your booth sounding the way it should.
And I am available through my parent company, which is Edge Studio. There’s a website, edgestudiotechnology.com, and I provide services like Dan’s. I kind of go a little nuts with the options, so I have a lot of different flat rate services and different ways you can work with us.
One-on-ones, do the webinar thing as well. You can send in a sound check as well for me, a similar process, and you can have me make a processing template for Twisted Wave, which you should really only use for auditions, if at all, unless the client asks otherwise. And a whole bunch of different ways to work with me.
I also get to design studios from time to time, and right now I’m actually in the middle of seven different studio build-out projects in different stages. A couple here in LA, a couple elsewhere. And that’s actually where I’m going.
Immediately after we hang up the source connect is running over to Burbank to check out a studio that’s been under work since… Oh man, I think it’s been a year. Yeah, a year.
So, I mean, George and I are literally competitors.
Yeah, but we’re not.
I mean, we…
It doesn’t sound like it.
We are and we aren’t.
We are and we aren’t. I mean, we consult with each other. Nobody knows more about home studios on God’s green earth than the two of us.
And we don’t say that from an egotistical point of view. We just know this is… We’ve been doing this longer than anybody else and we understand the environment.
We have different styles. We have different personalities and we have different, you know, just backgrounds and people tend to gravitate to one or the other. Sometimes people bounce back and forth.
Yeah, that’s happened a few times.
Like both of us have.
Well, George said this. Well, Dan said that.
What the heck is he talking about?
You’re killing me, Smalls.
Dan said it was okay. Well, again, guys. Drop the mic.
Yeah, really. Again.
And they’re out of mics.
It’s been so awesome to have you guys on. I can’t believe you agreed to it. Not sure what you were thinking, but we really appreciate it.
And hopefully we’ll get a chance to talk again soon.
Well, we know we will. We love you guys. You guys have been devoted fans of ours and it’s just been a lot of fun to see you guys put together a show and kind of follow in our footsteps in a little way.
It’s been a lot of fun to see it. I do listen to you guys pretty regularly in my podcast, Blair.
Yeah, George is a podcast addict.
I’m in the car a lot, so I do listen to a lot.
Well, PAS is a lot more affordable than GAS, so…
Podcast Acquisition Center, very nice, exactly.
It’s been our pleasure, guys.
Thank you guys so much. I know you have to get out of here for some other appointments, but I know Paul and I have benefited a great deal from your podcast, and…
Tell me everything I know. I’m fond of saying…
Except for trying out gear you don’t need. Well…
We can’t help you with that.
Yeah, if you’ve got the budget to do it, and you enjoy doing it, do it.
Is this your hobby? If it’s fun… Yes, it’s fun.
It’s for the…
It’s for the fans.
It’s for the fans.
It’s for the fans.
There you go, Paul. Is that what it says on your tax, on your schedule C?
I paced it to the window of the Whisperer.
For the fans. Again, yeah. It’s perspective.
If you’re buying the gear because it’s fun to you and it doesn’t stress you out, it’s actually fun trying to go for it, right? Have fun.
Go out and play. I mean, and that’s something that I tell people when I work with them and I teach them some of the initial things that they need to do with software. It’s like, here are the basics.
Go out and play.
Once you know the rules, then you’re allowed to break the rules.
Break the rules. Absolutely.
All right. Wow. Thanks again to Dan and George for that awesome interview.
Once again, you can check them out at vobs.tv or you can go to their Facebook page at VOBS and request to become a member.
Yes. Thanks once again to George and Dan. Like I said, it was a dream come true.
They are my VO idols and I’m so glad we were able to get them on the show.
Well that’s going to wrap us up for this episode of The VO Meter.
Measuring Your Voice Over Progress.
We hope that you’ll stay tuned because we’ve got some great content coming up. We’ll be interviewing a very successful voice talent and coach, Paul Stracquerda.
And another future episode, we have Terry Daniel coming on. A voice over coach and voice over talent out of Minneapolis. That should be fun.
Excellent. I can’t wait for those guys. I’ve studied with both of them and they’re incredible talents and I’m sure they have a lot of great strategies and tips for our listeners.
So join us next time for episode 12.
That’s it for this episode. Have a great day everybody.
Bye everybody.
Thanks for listening to The VO Meter, Measuring Your Voice Over Progress. To follow along, please visit www.vometer.com.

Episode 10 of The VO Meter, Measuring Your Voice Over Progress.
Hi everybody, and welcome to episode 10 of The VO Meter.
Measuring Your Voice Over Progress.
So this is an interesting episode. We’re gonna actually revisit a topic that we’ve talked about before on the podcast, and that is acoustics. So we have our guest, Adil Aliev from Vocalboothtogo, coming up in about 20 minutes.
But I feel like acoustics is certainly deserving of another podcast. What about you, Paul?
Yeah, there’s never a reason to stop learning about acoustics in my mind, and I’m sure Adil will agree.
And it’s one of those things that you can easily make small adjustments to as you continue to improve your space and improve your sound.
And as we talked about, it’s probably the most important part of your audio recording chain, so it definitely is worth revisiting.
So, before we start talking about our topic for the day, why don’t you tell us what you’ve been up to, Paul? You’ve said you had some exciting announcements you wanted to share with our listeners.
So yeah, number one, I finished my longest audio book to date. It was just under nine hours, eight hours and like 55 minutes, and it was pretty exciting. I also did it under a pseudonym, so I won’t give away too many clues, but for any of our listeners that are Simpsons fans, if you remember the episode where Homer decided to get into corporate America and gave himself a new corporate executive nickname, you’ll be able to find me.
His slogan was, I found it on my hairdryer.
I’ll just give it away, why don’t you?
Well, you know, the Simpsons are a little bit…
It had a very entertaining guest spot by Bill Clinton or a Bill Clinton impersonator as well. I think that’s enough hints for that one.
So Easter egg for the audience, go out there and check that out. And then, let’s see, I had another audio book that I landed on freelancer.com of all places. And it was a paid per hour, paid per finished hour book and paid pretty well actually.
And I was surprised to get that. And then finally, so I signed on with a large e-learning company about a year ago. And they do all kinds of different e-learning projects and videos.
And I was on their roster, quote unquote. And we talked about what that could mean. And more importantly, what it doesn’t mean.
It doesn’t necessarily mean you’re going to get work right away. So almost a year later, I finally got the call that they were giving me my first project. And that led to my first live directed session with a client.
So that was a lot of fun. I’ve done obviously remotes for the podcast and appearing on other shows like VOBS, but I’ve never actually done one with a client. And I’m happy to say it came off swimmingly and so much easier when you have somebody directing you that knows what they’re doing.
So yeah, that’s pretty much it for me. A couple of exciting things though and milestones for my career really.
Very cool. And so we’ve talked about remote recording on the podcast a little bit. And honestly, we could have a whole episode about it.
But just like the name indicates, you are talking with someone either through Skype or even a phone patch, and you’re being directed remotely while you record in your studio. So I know Paul has been trying to figure out an elegant solution for that for a very long time. So I’m curious, Paul, how did you get it to finally work?
Well, like you said, to explain a little bit more in detail to those listeners who may not be familiar, there’s a number of ways you can do it. What you basically want to do is be able to hear the person on the other end talking to you and giving you direction as if they were in the room with you. So you probably need headphones.
Well, you definitely need headphones unless you somehow have a magical way to hear through walls. And then you need a microphone that can do two-way communication. Ironically, because I was selling and purchasing a bunch of gear that we’ll talk about in a second in our Questionable Gear Purchases, I used my Blue Raspberry USB mic for this gig.
Because it was the easiest solution. I was a little nervous because it was the first time I was dialing into a client. I wanted to make sure I could get it down right.
And I knew that would be the easiest. It’s a USB mic that plugs into the computer. It has its own headphone jack.
So I said, you know what? I’m just going to go with the easiest solution so I don’t screw things up. The less switches and dials to mess with, the better.
And it worked like a charm. I used the Blue Raspberry. They said it sounded great.
They’re putting it together now, and it should be airing in a couple of days.
That’s great.
I mean, as we’ve said before… Sorry, I was going to say, as far as the technology, we just use Skype. I use Skype as a phone patch, and that’s a way you can have somebody talk to you.
So you could use your actual phone in here if you have an actual landline that can reach your booth. That will work. But I just had Skype playing through my headphones from the computer and then recording only my side of the conversation on my regular DAW, which is Twisted Wave.
Yeah, there’s a number of ways to do that. I have and I’ve seen other actors. I’ve actually had Skype up on my iPad, and then I used a little mic that plugged into that to improve the sound.
So the director could still get a very good idea of what I sounded like, and then I just had my headphones plugged into that, and that was sort of freeing up my computer from having to juggle recording and Skype at the same time. And depending on the director, usually they won’t mind if it’s not the exact same studio quality as your mic. Once you reach a certain level, you might have to get a more advanced setup where you can do playback without getting a feedback loop or maybe even using something like Source Connect or ISDN.
But that’s a topic for another day.
Yeah, and I will say, make sure that your sound is consistent. I happen to know this mic sounds nearly as good as my studio mic, which is why I have it in the first place, so I wasn’t hesitant to use it. But I wouldn’t recommend buying any old USB mic off the shelf just for this purpose and using it as your go-to live direction mic just because it’s a USB mic.
So I just want to be careful of what I said earlier.
I got to say, you’re very much a champion for the USB mic, Paul. You’ve had a lot of success with them, I’ve got to say.
Yeah, I mean, there’s ones out there that have really come a long way. I think the Blue Raspberry is one of them. We mentioned before I was on the VOBS episode with a sample, and I’ve used it for several auditions that have landed me gigs.
Well, I think, I mean, we’ve been at this point where I’ve heard people using AT2020s or Apogee mics or Blue Yetis for paid work for several years now. And the technology continues to get better, and those models are still considered professional enough to use for most projects.
Yeah, and I’ll throw this out there. I know he doesn’t mind because I asked him. Our audio coach, audio book coach, Sean Pratt, who has over 900 titles now recorded, they were all done on a Blue Yeti.
Yeah, you really don’t need to spend that much to get a good sound these days. But he also built a very good space to use it with. So keep in mind…
Hey, full circle. Back to the topic at hand.
And talking about consistency in recording, which acoustics play a big part in. So current events for me… As you know, last episode I talked about signing with an agency here in Washington.
And I had to do a number of signing contracts and filling out other acceptance materials. And I finally got all those mailed off today. And then last week, as part of signing with this agency, I had to get new headshots.
So, I mean, I had gotten headshots before to promote myself and to promote my business. And that was… I found a professional photographer, was in and out, had a pleasant experience in like an hour.
This one took like seven hours.
Oh my gosh.
It was a seven-hour shoot from like 1 to 8 p.m. And had to drive down to Seattle and back afterwards. I was just freaking exhausted. Tried on like maybe a dozen different outfits or ensembles, couple of suits and things that I would never actually wear in real life.
Did you get to do the George Costanza on the couch pose with just the boxers?
I am not in that kind of shape yet.
So did your agent pay for the shoot, or did you have to pay for that out of pocket?
That was out of pocket, but as you kind of transition into this on-camera world, you begin to realize that so much of this is tax deductible. I mean, since if you’re doing on-camera work, your body is sort of your calling card. All sorts of things that you might not have considered, like gym memberships or personal training, those can be written off as well, because it’s all about improving your instrument.
Always consult with your tax attorney or CPA.
Yes, we are not tax professionals, but we have played a few.
Is there anything else going on in your world?
Anything else? I’m currently working on a couple of very large corporate narration tours for a returned German client. They’re a very nice production company, and I love working with them, and I appreciate the work.
Other stuff, I’ve just gotten a lot of large projects in this week, mainly corporate narration or audio tours, so I’m really happy about that. Some of the language is a little difficult, kind of like verbal acrobatics, but other than that, it’s good work, and I’m really happy to do it.
Awesome. So as we mentioned, we will be getting back to our revisiting of acoustics and our guest Adil Aliev from vocalboothtogo.com. But first, we are going to have a VO Meter stick this week from Juan Esteves.
Hey, everybody, it’s time for the VO Meter shtick.
What did he say?
It’s time for the VO… Oh, never mind.
The VO Meter shtick?
Oh, got it.
Hello, VO friends. My name is Juan Esteves. I’m a bilingual voice actor from Puerto Rico, currently living in the suburbs of New York City.
I want to thank Paul and Sean for inviting me to be part of their podcast. Today, I want to share an interesting story about agents. Interesting because I don’t have an agent, or at least I don’t have a contract with one.
I do, however, work with an agent who sends me on auditions in Manhattan. Because of that, I’ve booked some nice jobs, so it has worked well so far. For the purposes of this story, we’ll call him Original Agent.
Recently, I got an email from the person who produced my commercial demo. Hey, I know an agent who’s looking for a bilingual actor. Are you interested?
Well, yeah, of course I’m interested. So I send them my demo. Their response is perfect.
I really like your demo, and I want to send you on an audition. Great! Then it gets better.
Do you have an agent? I say no, I don’t have an agent. Okay, then let’s see how the audition goes, and then maybe we can talk about representation.
The audition is the day after tomorrow. Everything feels good, very excited. So let’s call this one new agent.
The next morning, I get an email from old agent, which always puts a bounce in my step. He tells me he has an audition for me tomorrow. Tomorrow?
Wait a minute. Tell me it’s not the same one. Yes, it is the same one.
Ay, coño. I start getting a funny feeling in my stomach. When I write back and explain how I’m already going to this audition, well, let’s just say he doesn’t seem pleased.
We work so well together. And I always arrange your audition times so that they work around your full-time job, all of which is true. He wants me to go to the audition and sign in under his agency’s name.
Now I’m starting to feel even more uncomfortable. I don’t want to burn any bridges, so I explain as nicely as I can that I’ve already agreed with this other agent to sign in under his agency’s name. Of course, I do not reveal his name.
After some back and forth, old agent says, do what you think is right. I know Obi-Wan Kenobi said that to Luke Skywalker in the first Star Wars movie, but right now, I don’t feel the force is with me. But I’ve made my decision and I’m going to stick with the original plan.
It’s settled, right? Maybe not so much. Later in the day, I get another email from old agent.
The casting director for the audition says I need to sign in under old agent’s name, not new agent’s. It’s the casting director saying this, so it’s not open for discussion. Now, I don’t really know what’s going on here.
I have my suspicions, but what I think doesn’t matter at this point. It’s a mess and I need to clean it up. I see no alternative but to contact new agent about this situation.
His response doesn’t surprise me. All the people on their roster are exclusive and he doesn’t want to deal with all this territorial BS. Sorry, but it’s not going to work out.
I tell him I’m disappointed, but I understand and hope we can try again in the future under different circumstances. Now, I reach out to old agent and try to put things back the way they were. I tell him how much I value our relationship and that I hope we can keep working together as we have.
His next email is not about our relationship. It’s about the audition. It has been cancelled.
Of course it has. PS. After all that, things are back to normal with old agent.
The audition was rescheduled and I did go and signed in under his agency’s name. I didn’t get it. Ay caramba.
I just want to do VO that sounds so bonito. Doh.
So once again, that was Juan Esteves. Thanks so much, Juan. That was a great story.
And a cautionary tale that makes sure you have all your ducks in a row before trying to look for a new representation.
So I was actually really, really happy to hear this. Paul was telling me the fact, we had a really large information-packed episode last time with the wonderful Julie Williams. So we actually cut out our questionable gear purchase segment to make more time for her.
And people actually wrote us saying, what happened? Where did it go? So apparently a lot of people are enjoying our sort of foibles.
And I’m wondering if we’re sort of helping prevent, or people are sort of living through us so they don’t spend any money themselves.
Yeah, I’m gonna go with that as the reason that I keep buying stuff.
But I mean, we’ve joked about it before, but now we totally can. We could totally rationalize any purchases we make from now on. Okay, we are just about ready to delve into our topic of acoustics revisited for this episode.
But before that, we have our…
Questionable Gear Purchase.
I can start. And it’s bad. It’s really bad.
I went interface shopping and that sent me down a rabbit hole where I bought a whole bunch of interfaces, once again, trying to look for ways to make the podcast easier. So I bought a Scarlett 6i6 on Amazon, I think it was. Tried that out, it was okay.
It didn’t sound the best and I was having trouble getting enough gain for the dynamic mic I was using. So I sent that back, got a RME Babyface that I found used at Guitar Center for a great deal. And that has this Total Control software, I think it’s called, is it the brand name?
Total Control, I believe, is the… Total Mix. Total Mix, yes.
And it was just dizzying with all the inputs and all the different ways you can route stuff. It was so paralyzing to me that I couldn’t even figure out how to monitor the headphones on a single input. So having several jobs going on at the same time, which by the way, when you have jobs going on, it’s the worst time to switch gear.
And I just seem to never learn. So in order to simplify things…
Or if you would at least hold on to some gear to record with.
That may help too. So in order to, because I don’t do that, and I just jump into things with two feet all the time, I needed something that I could actually record with. So I had the RME Fireface and I went and bought another 6i6 locally on Craigslist.
So all within like the same week because I knew how to use it. So I went through the job I was doing. I think it was an e-learning gig.
Finished that and then got rid of both of those interfaces and bought an Apigee Duet 2 because I had been looking for one of those because I had heard that it had this loopback feature that made it easy to apply virtual inputs to, again, playback over the internet that we could use for the podcast or for a live direction. So I got that and figured out it really doesn’t do that, at least not to my knowledge and with me digging into the software. Now I will say the Apigee Duet does sound great.
It did everything I wanted to do sonically. It has enough gain to power dynamic any condenser and it sounds great, but ultimately it wasn’t solving my software problem. So I went as far off the deep end as I could find, at least without getting into the over $1,000 range and bought an Apollo Twin Solo, which a lot of people use and look to as a really good upgrade once they’ve established themselves and they’re ready to take that next step.
And that’s what I’m using right now.
Can I just gush about the Apollo for a second? So for people who don’t know, like there’s almost like this accepted tier of interfaces for people who are sort of looking to move away from the Focus Rides or the Steinberg units. And you may never actually come to that point, but these three units seem to be the most popular.
The three I just bought, you mean?
Yeah, the Apogee is definitely one of them. Or the Apogee, the Babyface. Those are great sort of more portable units, and they’re a little bit older tech, but they were still certainly very high quality.
And, but nowadays you’ve got ones like the Audion ID22, the Apollo Twin Solo, which like the Audion is supposed to have super clean preamps, but it’s sort of its own beast because it actually is, it’s got this integrated DSP system or digital signal processing. So basically you’re able to sort of emulate all sorts of preamps and other analog gear like compressors or limiters or equalizers within the box.
And that’s the reason I also wanted it because we’ve talked about this rumble problem I have, and I tried a channel strip that ultimately got kind of noisy. Oh, I should mention that, the DBX I talked about in the last episode, gone.
I mean, that thing that you loved more than any other piece of gear you’ve tried.
I did love it for a while, but I found when I was messing around with all these other interfaces, probably because they’re better quality, that it was introducing a hum into the recording that I did not think was there when I was using it with some of the more entry-level interfaces like the Focusrite and the Yamaha AGL3. But I found out that…
Oh, so you’re saying that the higher-level interfaces might have been quieter so that you could actually hear the inherent noise of that.
Exactly. Which I have to give credit to is what George Widom and Dan Linder were telling me was happening all along, and I just didn’t believe them. So I found out it was there.
So like you said, this internal DSP processing has been a godsend because all these classic preamps have been used in the industry for years are now available in this sort of virtual way. Like I’m using a Neve UA610B tube preamp right now, which is…
And that’s one of the free ones that comes with it, right?
It is, and it’s doing a great job. But then there also are some built-in channel strips or virtual channel strips that I plan on using. I have a call in with George.
He’s gonna help me set it up so I can get it right the first time without screwing things up too badly. And I think that will help me a lot with my processing out the rumble.
And that’s probably the main reason why I didn’t get the Apollo. As cool as it looks, I mean, it’s a shiny little silver box with a very bright or volume meter on it. It’s like got shining lights and everything.
But basically, if it was something that I need assistance to figure out, I was like, I probably don’t need it. So, but I’m happy for you. I mean, you deserve good gear.
And I’m glad that you’re having George help you out with it. What’s that?
Right, so there is one other selling point, and it’s Thunderbolt. So, it doesn’t go through the USB bus on the computer. So, if you have a lot of other things plugged into the USB bus in your computer, like a lot of us do, you know, webcams and maybe hubs or microphones.
Like sometimes I plug in my USB microphone. If you can get your interface not on that same bus in the computer, it helps a lot. And my Mac…
Oh, I had to get a new Mac, by the way, in order to make this work. So, more questionable gear. So, I have a new shiny iMac as well with a Thunderbolt connection.
So, now that’s how the Apollo is connected.
Very cool. And like in most modern Macs these days really don’t have very many USB ports, maybe like two or three at most. But they do have at least two Thunderbolt ports.
So, like you said, it’s a great way to free up those other ones.
Yeah, that helps. So, there’s a whole rabbit hole of microphones this past couple of months too. Do you want me to go through that or do you want to take a turn?
Well, I’ll start with the microphones.
Maybe you can tell the story that involves me as well.
Oh yeah, yeah, we can sort of bounce it back and forth. So, you guys know how I feel about the American-made CAD E100S. A lot of voice talent find this to be an amazing, popular microphone.
It got really popularized when VO blogger Paul Struquerda wrote a very stellar review of it. And since then, there’s been a couple of waves of voice talent who have bought it, who’ve been very happy with it. And unfortunately, when I ordered mine, I was in Japan and I finally got it after waiting like six weeks.
And then it was noisy. And this mic is supposed to be dead silent. It’s literally like they actually, in their marketing materials, they say lowest noise rating in its class.
And so basically any noise would have been unacceptable. But no, it was noisy. And after troubleshooting it for a couple of days, I decided to send it back.
And so they told me they sent me a second one and then a month goes by and they just tell me like, oh, we don’t know what happened to it. So it’s probably somewhere in the Pacific Ocean. And then my third one…
Wasn’t that around the same time as Fukushima?
Oh, no, that was a few years after Fukushima. You’re terrible. That’s awful.
Sorry.
Awful, awful, awful. Yeah. When is it?
Not too soon. But anyways, so that one got lost. And then they put in another order, but it never went in stock again.
So they just canceled it and gave me my money back. And then so I was very bitter for a couple of years. And then somebody was selling theirs, like a gently used one.
They had it for about a year without any problems. And they were selling it for $200, which is more than half off. And the lowest I’ve seen it for Mike in that condition.
So almost on impulse, I said I’d buy it and I did. And it was almost, I just wanted to know what it sounded like when it worked basically. And so I put it up with all my other mics.
At the time, I had like a big four mic shootout. It was that one. It was my Jay-Z J1, which I got as an alternative to the CAD.
And then my 416 and my Blue Mouse. And it actually scored pretty high. It was pretty much the second place next to the 416.
And then…
Yeah, I actually listened to that. And I think I thought it was the 416 before you told us.
Yeah, that’s right. Because even though I had said in my email… It was sort of a blind test, but Paul just assumed that I was listing them in order.
Right.
But yeah. And no, it sounded quite good. And I see why it’s often compared to the 416.
But it is a little bit darker. And it’s a little bit less aggressive. So it would be good for like long form stuff or like longer narration.
But anyways, so I had two good mics and then two okay mics. And I finally accepted that I was never going to get the amazing sound out of the mouse that I had always dreamed of. And Paul, I remember that you were interested in it.
So we decided to do a trade.
Yeah, because Paul’s a psycho. And I had just made a trade with a fellow voice talent to trade away my Sennheiser MKH 415 for a Neumann TLM 102. It was a Facebook post, and this talent said, hey, I had this 102.
I’m looking to trade for a 416. And basically my salesmanship skills talked him into taking the 415, which I think sounds pretty similar and maybe even a little better.
Well, to your credit, I feel like from everyone who’s recommended it or used it, they’ve said it sounds as good or better than the 416. So I don’t feel like you really, like, you didn’t jip him or anything.
No, I don’t think so. So we made that trade, and TLM 102 was a disaster in my space. It sounded, it picked up way too much of the boominess that I had trouble with, more of that rumble.
It was way too sensitive. So that’s when I called you up and said, let’s try and make a trade ourselves.
Yeah, and so, like, the costs are about the same what we paid for it, and so I was like, and the 102 was a mic that I always wanted to try. I mean, it’s so tiny and cute, and it’s an ointment. Like, I had never tried an ointment in my space before.
So I was like, why the hell not? And then a couple of days go by, and then it arrives, and I’m like, oh, wow, it’s a little bit bigger and a little bit heavier than I thought it would be.
And why was that?
And then I put it away, and then I’m like, now, wait a minute, it doesn’t… If you look at the 102, it’s got this very distinctive sort of like chrome metal ring just underneath the headbasket. And then, and that sort of sets it apart from other models like the TLM 103 or the TLM 49 and all the other stuff in the 1000 plus range.
But I was like, wait a minute, that didn’t look right. And then so I got the mic out of the case again, and then I looked at the side, and it says TLM 103. So not only did Paul not realize he had an industry standard in his booth that he hates, but the person who sold it to him didn’t realize they had a 103 instead of a 102.
And I mean, he hasn’t contacted you, right? He seems like he’s happy with his trade.
No, he told me he loved the 415 and was super happy with it.
I’m not sure if it was a typo, because we didn’t actually talk on the phone. We just emailed back and forth. So maybe there was a typo.
Maybe he always knew it was a 103. Maybe I’m an idiot and just didn’t read. I don’t even know.
No, I saw his post, and he didn’t even have pictures of the mic itself. At least if he did, I think I actually told him. I said, that’s a 103.
But I mean, I’m happy with it because I had been looking for a decent condenser for a long time. And I think the 103 does sound nicer on my voice than the Blue Mouse did. But it brings with it its own set of sensitivity issues because it’s a very sensitive mic.
And while I can use it occasionally in the space I have now, it is far more sensitive to ambient noise. And honestly, I don’t feel like I could use it consistently until I get an isolated booth.
Yeah, that was a problem I had too. Even though I thought it was 102, it was way too sensitive for my booth, where it was sucking up every possible low-end frequency. And it sounded maybe the muddiest mic I’ve ever had in here, which is saying something.
So that brings us to what I’m using now. We went ahead and made that trade actually a two-for-one deal with a little bit of bartering on some work going on, where you sent me both the Blue Mouse and the CAD E100S.
Well, yeah, because now I had two industry standards and a mic that I don’t really need. And I will say the CAD was pretty close. Basically, I just kept the 103 because I thought it would look better on paper.
And I wanted the CAD to go to someone who could actually use it and benefit from it.
Yeah, and I’m using it right now. And it sounds great. I actually really like the way it eliminates mouth noise for me.
I’m not sure why, but it’s the best condenser I’ve used to help eliminate some of the mouth clicks without having to do a whole lot of post-processing. Maybe it’s the way I positioned it.
I think both the mouse and the CAD sound really good on you. And I think something that they offer that I haven’t heard so much in other mics is that it’s very clear, but it’s gentle. It’s a little bit softer.
It’s not like right in your face. And that might be whatever levels you’re using right now. But I think it sounds like you, and it sounds nice.
Yeah, I agree.
Please hold on to these for a little bit, at least a little while.
Yeah, so we’ll see what happens. But at least we can say that there weren’t really many questionable gear purchases. It was more questionable gear bartering.
Maybe we’ve learned something.
Maybe we’ve. So you got me to relax and sell some things and get rid of some things. And hopefully.
And I saved you. I don’t know.
Well, fans, I hope you’re happy that we brought the segment back just for you.
Yeah, I think we’ve just opened up like a whole new tier of expensive things to try. Like, we’re going to get like an Antelope Zen desk or whatever. It’s like a $5,000 interface.
Yeah, I will say it was kind of ridiculous when I was thinking to myself, from where I started with the Vocalboothtogo Blanket Booth and the AT2020, to now being in a Whisper Room holding a TLM 103 in my hand, it just kind of blows my mind.
Well, yeah, I mean, I was about to say, it sounds like you’re doing pretty well. I mean, like, I’m able to reinvest in all of these crazy purchases. I’m not going broke yet.
So that wraps up Questionable Gear Purchases. Talking a little bit about our topic for today of acoustics, Paul and I have actually been doing some experimentation in our booths, because we’re constantly trying to make it either more ergonomic or have a more logical workflow or a more efficient workflow.
In my case, it’s always different equipment.
It’s always different equipment. But there’s different ways to change or improve the sound without actually changing the equipment. You can actually get just the positioning of items within your booth.
So for example, and this is relating to acoustics, I swear. So right now, I have my mic and my iPad screen, which I’m reading off of, sort of buried in very close to this wall of clothing. And so right now you’ve got about seven inches of absorbing material that’s sucking up those waves and anything that does bounce off the back wall has to go back through that and then it has to go through clothing on the other wall.
And so it sounds quite dead in here. But I wanted to kind of move everything out into the center more so I could have the mic a little bit closer to me and then I could have the iPad be level with my eyes. And so just like better for my neck and my body when I read.
And so I got a mic stand and then I got some accessories so I could put everything on one mic stand and have the mic sitting down and I moved it to the center of the room. And it sounded terrible because one thing that you actually can’t hear right now is there’s actually a full wall mirror behind me that doesn’t… yeah, you would never guess.
But when you move about five or six inches back into the center of the room, you hear that flat surface. And it was even worse when I was using a large diaphragm condenser like the Blue Mouse or the CAD or what have you. So it just did not sound as dead.
And all I changed was the position of the mic in the room by less than half of a foot. So that was a big wake up call. And I know you’ve been experimenting with sort of acoustics in your booth as well, Paul.
What have you been up to?
Well, I had a very similar situation actually. I wanted to try and get to a point where I was using one mic in one position because I had these two sort of mic stations, one standing up in the corner and one sitting down the other corner in a very small space. I have a four by four whisper room.
So there wasn’t a whole lot of room for gesturing or moving and acting when I was reading. So I thought it would be easier to have the mic in one place. So I took everything out, including the chair and the stand I was using for the mic, and put the boom arm that I have drilled to the wall right in the middle of the whisper room.
And then I had the chair, the little tiny bar stool I use right next to that, and I thought this would give me more space, and I do everything sitting. And like you, it sounded awful. It sounded like I was in an echo chamber, and all I did was move the mic maybe three feet from the corner to the middle of the room.
And I tried it in all different positions, but what I discovered is that there really are only two sweet spots in this room. There’s the top right-hand corner and the bottom left-hand corner. And if I don’t have the mic right there, it sounds awful.
So I had to go back to where I was before, and that’s where the cat is now. It’s on the boom arm in the far corner with a blanket, one of the vocalboothtogo.com blankets, and a corner bass trap and two bottom bass chunks. And that’s the only way I can get a good sound.
So it goes to show that once you find that sweet spot, just sort of stick with it, and it may be the only place you can actually record that’s going to sound that good.
Yeah, definitely. When you’re trying to find the best sound when placing equipment in your booth, you definitely want to take notes or take pictures so you can easily replace it if you accidentally move it to a place where it doesn’t sound as good. But like we were saying, you really have to experiment and fine tune, whether it be adding more treatment or adding a bass trap or even putting a little mat or a towel on your desk.
But there are all kinds of things that you can do to improve the sound. For example, downstairs, I have, like you guys know, my famous blanket booth from Vocalboothtogo. And that one sounds great in there, but since I just had his portable version, the Carry On Vocalbooth available too, I decided why not put that in there too.
I’m not sure if it really needed it, but I can tell you it is super dead in there now. But an interesting thing about that space is it works great with a mic, like a shotgun mic, like the 416 or a large diaphragm condenser, like the Jay-Z J1, which has a slightly narrower pattern than similar mics. But I would never use the 103 down there, because it’s in the center of the house.
And so you’ve got plumbing above it and underneath it. So if anyone takes a shower or goes to the bathroom or turns on the dishwasher or the washing machine downstairs, you’ll hear this rumbling in the walls. And it’s summer right now, and we’re kind of out in the woods.
And so we’ve got all sorts of animal sounds, like dogs and birds, and you’ve even got a donkey next door who honks every now and then.
Really?
No, it’s really bad. It’s really, really bad. It’s like the same time every day at like 8 p.m. But the point I’m trying to say is if you have a directional mic, like a shotgun, then those might not be an issue for you.
And you can be a lot more… You have a lot more options when it comes to finding an ideal space in your home to record. But when you’ve got something with a wider pattern, like the 103 or another large diaphragm, then you have to be much more selective about finding a space because acoustics and ambient noise is that much more of an issue.
Right. So there are a number of ways you can treat your space from very simple to full-blown soundproof booths. And our next guest can cover your bases, whatever you need.
So without further ado, let’s take it to the Zoom room, and we’ll get to our interview segment with Adil Aliev from vocalboothtogo.com. We are now so excited to welcome Adil Aliev, and we’re really excited to have you on. So thanks for being here.
Oh, thank you. Thank you for having me. And I’m also excited that, you know, you’re the customer, and you came in this, that you got the booth, and you gave me that positive feedback that makes everything going.
And Sean also, you know, is the carry-on.
Adil, for people who may not be familiar with you and your company, could you just tell us a little bit about the history and how you got started?
Sure. Well, I used to have a moving company, and then I started selling moving blankets. And at one point, one of the customers actually, I kind of noticed that I have musicians and producers buying the blankets for the purpose of acoustics.
And some of them said, listen, can you design the blanket that would give, kind of beef it up? So it would give more acoustic properties and special. I said, sure.
And we did that. We actually beef it up, put more padding in, change things. And then I started to look into that, how they use it.
So over the time, we changed the… So it’s not a moving, it’s maybe looking like moving blankets, it’s not the moving blankets anymore. We changed the inside filler to make it pure cotton, because at one point we had issues with the smell.
People would say, oh, it’s smelling. And we realized that that was because of certain impurities that come with the stuff that they use for moving blankets, a lot of synthetic fiber. So we made it all pure, and we tested and tested it at 80% sound absorption, which is great.
And that’s how it is. And the guy said, don’t do anything, just it’s perfect. And then at some point, and at that time, I wasn’t really kind of into that much, but James Alberger in Santiago, he runs the Voice Acting Academy, they invited me for the Voice Over Conference.
And that’s when I went over there, and at that time, I already made up the first kind of prototype of the Caryln Boost. I showed it up over there, and I received very, very good, very nice positive feedback. And more and more I started to improve on the products and add different ones.
And that’s how, over the time, the Vocalboothtogo actually kind of taking more and more time. Basically, it’s now 70% of what I do, I think maybe even 90%, and always designing new products. The idea behind it is Vocalboothtogo, because I realize that the voice actors, they want to be mobile.
Then musicians, practicing singers and everybody else, they also want to be not really mobile, but they need the solution that would be effective and still easy to use. So they can put it in the apartment, take it down if necessary. If you have to go to the client, you can take it with you.
So these two things, the mobility and efficiency, is kind of like a cornerstone of all the designs that you make. And yeah, so that’s how it develops. So now we have more and more products coming out.
Very good.
Are you using the Carry On Vocalbootht right now?
Yeah, it’s a Carry On Vocalbootht.
The Carry On Vocalbootht. And we actually use that to do episode 3 of the podcast in the middle of the trade show floor for the Mid-Atlantic Voice Conference. And it works fantastically, where some of the interviews sound better than some of the ones we’ve done over Zoom.
Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I can’t believe how well it sounded like in the middle of a lecture hall. I mean, obviously, you’re going to hear the noise of the people and the other attendees, but the audio quality itself was quite good.
And it works very well for on-the-site news gathering or kind of podcast or live recording like that. So it worked out very, very well. Actually, what I wanted to go on, because you talked about your history and like about continuously making new products, do you have any new things that you’re excited to talk about with us now?
Like any new products or modifications of current products that you have?
Well, one product that I’m working on now, the product I’m working on right now is a soundproof sound booth. The very first… Well, one of the very first, not the very, very first.
The very first of this sound booth, what we call SPB33, had Velcro on it. So actually when people would get inside, the hair would get caught on that. And it was not pretty.
But people liked it anyway because it worked well. It was very comparable with other solid shell sound booths. But there was a problem.
So the current that we have right now was with a zipper. So we did away with the Velcro and put the zipper in there. So it’s better.
It’s better. But it’s still not good because, let’s say the audiometry people, people who do the test hearing tests, they’re using the product. And for them, they say, open it up for 30 people a day, it’s not convenient.
And Paul requested that I do the swing open door.
I did.
Yes, he did. So if Paul requested that, I had to do it. And this is what I’m currently working on.
So the new modification of the soundproof booth will come with the open door. So I made it. I made the frame for that.
I designed the opening. Also, that new product will be a little bit different. It’s going to be different because you can actually use the same parts and modify it in different sizes.
For example, right now we have it in 3×3, 6×3, and 6×6. But with that new modification, you can extend it, make it 6×12, 6×18.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, you can kind of… For voice actors, that’s probably not important. But if you have a recording band, like drummers and a couple of more instruments over there, so if they want to jump together, then…
Fill out the whole garage.
Yeah, that would be something to use. So, yeah.
That’s very exciting. We talked about that in Atlanta. I did bring that up to you in Atlanta.
I said, you know, I had the booth and I liked it. It sounded great with almost no modification. My one concern was the door.
And the reason because I have my computer outside the booth, so I can minimize the noise as much as possible. So every time I need to go edit or look at a file, I have to go out the door. So sometimes when I’m doing an audio book, I’m out the door, you know, 10 times during a session and like you said, the zippers can be cumbersome, it works, but it’s not for someone who moves around a lot.
If all your stuff is in the booth, then it’s probably okay. But I really appreciate you taking that to heart and actually trying to innovate.
I try all these comments to heart.
I take all the time. Once the prototype is done, I’m going to go out there and do some video maybe, try it out. Sure.
That’s a question I want to ask you, because I talked about how you’re a local company to me basically. I’m just outside Baltimore in a town called Lutherville, and you’re in Frederick, Maryland. How is the market in this area, the DC and Baltimore metro region, is that a big market for you, or is most of your products shipped outside of this area?
Well, we mostly do it online. We mostly do it online. We actually did not approach the local market, so to speak.
And if I look at the sales, I think about 60% of the sales go to California. Yeah, 60% go to California. Maybe the other 30 go to New York, and the rest is the rest of the country.
And do you have a lot of international sales?
We do have international sales. We pretty much send all over the world. We send to Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Japan, all over Europe, Portugal, Brazil, Mexico, everywhere.
In Mexico, we have this Jehovah’s Witness company in Mexico. I think they bought by now 30 carry-on booths.
You say Jehovah’s Witness?
Jehovah’s Witness, yes.
What were they using it for?
That’s a good question. That’s a good question. I meant to ask them, so once they get it…
Because they ordered once five, then they ordered another five or six, and then they ordered one. And I said, listen, the shipping to Mexico with all the customs and duties, they’re really expensive. If you want to order something, order two.
So she took a week to think about it, then she ordered 15.
I don’t know, maybe they’re using it for missionary work or, I don’t know, recording sermons.
Well, yeah, recording sermons, the recording, I don’t know, they also do the podcasts. Yeah, they do a lot of different podcasts on the radio, and it works well. It works well for podcasts.
So, yeah, Canada, Canada is a big market. We send a lot of Canada. And I think we did send to Russia, we did send to Norway and Sweden, and yeah, I think each and every country we sent to Turkey.
We even sent to Afghanistan.
We sent to Afghanistan, we sent to Dubai. Yeah, I can’t really think. India, India got a couple of booths.
By the way, the other aspect, I think it will be interesting for us to talk about is the rental opportunity. Because our booths are so compact that you can pack them in a bag and it’s small enough, we can ship it anywhere. And for example, we have voice actors who come from United Kingdom.
For example, they come for a week to LA. We ship them the booths, they go over there, they record there, they send it back, they go back to UK. Netflix, Netflix got two booths for rental for like six to 12 weeks.
Whatever they do with that, I don’t know, but it’s good. Microsoft recently bought one soundproof booth to take on the tour. So yeah.
I did one and I came to the warehouse and picked it up in the back of a Nissan Versa. So it’s really compact. For those of you who don’t know, the Nissan Versa is like the smallest car in Nissan’s lineup.
It’s basically the size of the SB33 when it’s stretched out. I was able to take the whole booth in the back of there and drive it back home.
And I love that kind of flexibility because for people, especially voice actors who are starting out, getting a booth of any kind can be a very large investment. So people want to be sure that they either get the right one or they can get a good return on it. And you just letting people rent it out for a temporary amount of time just takes so much pressure off them if it doesn’t work out.
So thank you very much for offering that unique service.
That’s true. That’s kind of… It’s kind of rent before you buy.
So people would rent it first and then you usually keep it. Unless it’s a business. Business, I think, they go on the project.
So let’s say if they go to the trade show, they take the booth to the trade show and then they return it. But people who want to test it, they rent it for a week. And actually, I understand that all the voice actors, they, you know, one army, one person army, their own business.
So we do have some financing options, too. We work with a financing company. And they right now actually offer 90 days no pay deal.
So basically, you get the product. For 90 days, you pay nothing.
So 90 days is cash type of deal. That’s great.
Yeah. And after that, you can pay in installments to them.
Is that for both size booths, the 6×3 and the 3×3?
It’s for any product. It’s for anything over $1,000. I think they have a threshold of $1,000.
Anything over $1,000, they offer that financing. Well, we together offer that financing. You know, there’s a button over there, Financing.
If your cart, overall, gets more than $1,000, the button will appear. And you just click there, fill out the form. And it is convenient.
They go through the approval process, of course. It’s very convenient.
Very cool. So do you have any other exciting products or other developments going on right now that you’d want to talk about?
I do. But that product would be a smaller version. It’s even a smaller version than the carry-on.
And what it’s designed for right now, the working name for that is YouTube or Vocalbootht. So it’s designed for something small, like a smartphone or video camera. And one of the kind of stimulus for me to make that product, some photographers call in and say, you know, can you have that booth that would open on the back?
Because, you know, when you take a video, you need to look at the viewfinder, and you look at something, so you have to have a see-through, so to speak. And then you cover from all sides, so it protects from the wind and noise and everything else. So that’s the product comes in.
That comes, when it’s folded, it’s actually the size of the laptop. It’s that flat, it’s about an inch thick, maybe, I mean, maybe an inch and a half thick. And it’s going to be about 14 inches by 16 inches, by one inch, that small.
Wow, very cool. So that’s similar to sort of your carry-on tracking booth that you used, I think it’s a discontinued product, but you used to have it a few years ago. So it’s going to be even smaller than that?
It’s going to be even smaller than that. It’s going to be, the design is totally different. Yeah, but it’s going to be kind of like that, yeah.
Very cool. I’m excited to see it. And maybe send me a test unit when you get it.
Yeah, I have a working product, but I just need… It’s marinating, as I call it, marinating, because I usually make a design, and then it has to sit for a while, so I can think of some improvements to make.
Until somebody complains to you at a trade show, and you decide to go with that idea.
Well, something that I was… Speaking of that, Adil, one modification that I was very happy to see is… I mean, I’m actually currently using your carry-on vocal booth inside of your hanging acoustic vocal booth right now, and I love this booth.
It’s probably my favorite portable recording solution, but one thing I did notice is that occasionally, if you’re in a very reflective space, all of these portable acoustic solutions, whether it’s yours or someone else, didn’t really have an effective dampening thing behind you. And then I saw it via Atlanta. You would actually fix that problem.
What did you do?
Oh, yes, that’s right. Thanks for reminding me. You see how it is.
Once the product is finished, it goes back in my mind, and I concentrate on something that is new. Yeah, that’s right. It’s already been sent to production.
What we did, we created the hood, and I call it surround sound hood, because it kind of goes over your back and over your shoulders. You might have seen on other booths that they have a little black piece of fabric that you pull over and throw behind yourself and kind of sits on your head. No, we have the whole blanket, the same sound absorption blanket, and there is a support structure designed so it doesn’t sit on your head.
Your head is kind of free to move, and the booth is just being supported in the support structure. And yeah, that surrounds completely. And if you go on the website, actually Rachel Naylor, she’s running a voiceover network in the United Kingdom.
Yeah, we both…
Yeah, we met her at VU Atlanta, yes.
Yes, yes, yes. She did to VU Atlanta, and she needed to do the urgent voiceover for Virgin Atlantic, because she is the voice of Virgin Atlantic.
Oh, wow.
And yeah, so I gave her that booth with surround sound, and she did the work for Virgin Atlantic. They were very happy with that.
Excellent.
So, Adil, one question I had that everybody asked me actually, some fans of the podcast. So you see where I am right now, I have your blankets behind me.
Yes.
Should I have them the right way? Should they be white side out or black side out?
The white side in. The black side out, yes.
I have them backwards, huh?
Well, from an acoustic point of view, it doesn’t matter. Okay. Either way, it’s going to do the same job.
But from claustrophobic… It’s better when you have white around you. It’s kind of…
It looks more spacious.
Well, it reflects light very well. So if you like to do…
It makes it lighter too. That’s right.
Yeah. Like you said, it helps with claustrophobia. I occasionally make videos in here either for like on-camera auditions or just product review videos for fun.
And it definitely looks more professional than having an actual studio, you know?
A good friend, Juan Esteves, who’s actually doing the VO Meter stick this episode, asked me that very question. He said, I think I have mine backwards because you and Sean have the white side out, but I’m glad to hear it. It doesn’t really matter.
I think it’s all personal preference, you know?
That’s totally fine. He wants to use the black side. I’m glad that it’s reversible.
Never heard of that. But you’ll learn.
All right. That pretty much wraps up our questions for Adil. I just want to say thank you so much.
You’ve certainly helped Paul and I create a much better sounding space in our own respective spaces. And we hope to have you on again, because I know you’re constantly developing new products and modifying existing products. So if you have any new announcements, we’d love to have you back, Adil.
Yeah, basically it was our start in getting a great sound.
Yeah, thank you, thank you. And I’m really happy to be on the show. And the more I know, especially Paul and Sean, always coming in positive, always coming in these constructive comments.
And that’s exactly what I need. And you were saying before how the idea that I treated your comment about the door seriously, I treat all the comments seriously. All of them, because they all kind of give me what people need, and I like to solve those problems.
Well, it’s really funny that you mentioned it, because I’ve been watching your products for about four or five years now, and you see an actual evolution in the quality and the effectiveness of the product, even little things, like the cool little travel bag that the Carry On Vocalbootht is a part of. And you are constantly making things better and better at a pretty affordable price. So thank you very much.
Thank you. Thank you.
We look forward to seeing what’s new and upcoming soon.
All right. Maybe next month. Thank you.
So once again, that was Adil Aliev from vocalboothtogo.com. Thanks again, Adil, so much. I’m so glad that you were able to join us today.
Paul and I have both benefited from a number of his products.
We’ve talked about them so much.
Almost every episode. But I highly recommend them, especially for beginning or aspiring talent because it’s a reasonably affordable and highly customizable solution for a variety of spaces.
They’re a great company and he’s a great guy. So thanks so much, Adil.
So that about wraps up episode 10 of The VO Meter.
Measuring Your Voice Over Progress.
If you guys have any questions or if you have any ideas for topics you’d like us to talk about, just hit us up on Facebook at either Sean Daeley or Paul Stefano. Or you can post right here at vometer.com in the comments section. Thanks a lot, you guys.
Have a great day.
Bye, everybody.
Thanks for listening to The VO Meter. Measuring Your Voice Over Progress. To follow along, please visit www.vometer.com.

The VO Meter, Measuring Your Voice Over Progress.
Hello, everybody, and welcome to episode nine of the VO Meter podcast.
Measuring Your Voice Over Progress. We have a great episode coming back. We’re really excited to be back after a bit of a hiatus there.
And we are here with voice actor and coach, Julie Williams. So I’ve been following Julie online for several years now, and she has graciously agreed to be on the podcast and share her wisdom. And I’m really looking forward to it.
So moving on to current events. What have you been up to, Paul? It’s been a couple of weeks since we’ve been able to do this.
Yeah, a couple of things. I finished up my longest audiobook to date. I was pretty proud of that.
It’s a 9.2-hour book, and that was pretty exciting. And let’s see, I just recently, in fact, yesterday, was found for the first time via Google search, at least to the best of my knowledge. I had gotten into some Google AdWords, if anyone has ever looked into that, and put some advertising money behind my website.
And it looks like there were some immediate results. Within a couple of days, I had an email to info at paulstofano.com, which kind of shocked me, and I thought it was a phishing scam at first.
Oh, no.
But it was a legitimate job. The client needed a video resume done. I did a form, and as I was responding and talking about a quote, I said, out of curiosity, how did you find me?
He said, I did a Google search on voice actors. I think he said agency-free. I’m not sure why he was searching for that and why that popped my name up, but regardless, he found me via Google search, and that was pretty exciting.
Like I said, to the best of my knowledge, this is the first time anyone has found me just by searching for voice acting or voice over keywords.
Oh, I remember when I got one of my first voice over clients. We had sent a few emails back and forth, and I was like, oh, wait, now that I think of it, how did you guys find me? Because it was still so new to me at the time.
And they had actually found me from my Bedalgo online casting site profile. And so the first of many. So I mean, I love Bedalgo.
Armin, if you’re listening, thank you very much. Because the Germans love my voice for some reason. It’s like David Hasselhoff.
Yeah, love me some Armin Hirschtetter. He’s a great dude.
Yes, way to say the name right. But anything else that you’re happy about?
Nothing else going on right now. I’m in a bit of a lull. That job yesterday was the first one, first quote unquote real job I’ve done in a couple of weeks.
I’m kind of in between audiobooks because I finished this long one and frankly I just needed a break emotionally. And I’m really busy personally doing a lot of youth sports coaching and some traveling. So I’m in a bit of a lull between books and I hope to pick up another one pretty soon.
How long does it take to make a nine hour book?
Well, the deal was signed in January, if that gives you any indication, and I just finished.
Wow.
That includes about a three week hiatus where I was really sick. I think we talked about that on the one episode we did, episode seven with the agency round table. I was really sick during that and then for like basically the next whole month.
So I couldn’t record anything long form.
Oh man.
So I guess it’s about a three month process.
Well, good to know, especially for anyone thinking that audio books is a good way to make a quick buck.
Yeah, cause you were saying you were just starting to delve into that for reels as the kids say, right?
Yeah, it’s hard. I mean, I’m used to doing long form. Like I’m used to regularly recording hour to three hour long narration projects.
But the amount of effort that goes into an audio book between the prep and the research and the communication with the author, it’s a lot of work.
Yeah, it is. So one other thing I wanted to mention is I picked back up coaching with Sean Pratt. That might have been news to the listening crowd since the last episode.
And I’d taken a brief hiatus just because of personal stuff and we’re back on the train moving forward. And one of the things that he has you do is try to work on branding. And I was hoping to solicit some help from the audience about how they might help me with that.
So the exercise without giving away too many trade secrets is to find a couple of descriptive words that describe your voice or your character. And you ask your friends and your family and people you know, workmates. So I thought maybe I’ll ask the audience.
If you have a comment, something you could use to describe my voice or personality, whether you’ve seen me on video or just on the podcast, I’d love to hear it. Give me a shout out in the comments either on the Facebook page or on the VO Meter page itself. And I would really appreciate the help.
Very cool. What a great idea. And not to thread, Jack, but if you wouldn’t mind saying a word or two about me, that’d be great too.
Right, because you’ll be doing the same exercise soon.
Yeah, probably. And I’ve heard it used by a couple of different coaches. I think it’s a great exercise because you want to know how…
I mean, we’re so subjective on our own voices. You want to know how you’re perceived by the outside world and what in different social circles, whether you’re friends or close friends or what have you. So I think it’s a great exercise and way to drop it on our audience, Paul.
There we go. Hopefully, hopefully we’ll get some feedback. So what’s going on in your world?
Well, I’m a little sad because I just got back from Hawaii a week or two ago and just kind of getting over the hump of like going, returning back to normalcy, you know. I was actually visiting my girlfriend in Oahu. She’s a theater teacher over there for the Honolulu Theater for Youth.
And so she was working a lot, but we still managed to go to the beach and go hiking and had some wonderful adventures together. And then, so after all that was said and done, it’s back to the grindstone and I don’t know, just makes me more determined to work hard until I can see her again, you know.
Yeah, I know how you feel. I’ve been to Hawaii once. It was my honeymoon, which was coming up on 13 years ago.
And I still wish I could go back every single day. It’s one of the most beautiful places I’ve ever been.
It is gorgeous. And you wonder how people get used to it over there, you know? This is just the place that they live.
I’m sure it happens. I’m sure it happens like everywhere else.
Oh yeah, you’d be amazed. Same thing with Nagasaki. It’s absolutely beautiful place.
And then, but you get used to it. So it’s nice having a visiting boyfriend come over and be like, hey, you live in an amazing island paradise. Let’s go hang out.
Yeah, we often get the same comments here in Baltimore. People consider, people call it a paradise.
Oh really?
Ba-dum-bum, psh, no, of course. No, it’s a joke.
Well, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, man.
Waiting for the punchline. Their slogan for the state, actually, is the land of pleasant living. I don’t know if that’s a joke or not.
That’s what they call it, the old national beer company. That was their slogan for the national Bohemian beer. From the land of pleasant living, Baltimore, Maryland.
Maybe they’re just being polite. They’re like, um, it’s pleasant.
Right. Is there anything else going on in your world?
Well, yeah, I actually got offered representation by a local agent. They’re Colleen Bell Agency over in Bellevue, Washington. They represent voice actors, as well as on camera and modeling talent.
It’s funny, even though I’m interested in doing voice work for them, they insist that I get headshots made. And I had some headshots made a while ago, but I wouldn’t call them competitive. It was more just to have a professional picture.
Right.
But yeah, and it’s crazy, because they want me to have all these different outfits, be like, all right, we want you to go for sort of a skater hoodie vibe, and then maybe a rock star leather jacket vibe. And then of course, the well-dressed corporate vibe, and then out on the town vibe. But it’s all, I don’t know, it’s just making me think more from a different industry’s point of view.
So it’s really interesting as well.
Well, that’s awesome. Congratulations.
Yeah, thank you very much.
Hope that works out for you.
I hope so too.
So we will be back in just a moment with our featured guest, Juilie Williams. But first, we have a VO Meter schtick from someone in your neck of the woods, Sean, Jeff Bugonian. Take it away, Jeff.
Hey, everybody, it’s time for the VO Meter shtick.
What did he say?
It’s time for the VO… Oh, never mind.
The VO Meter shtick?
Oh, got it.
Hi, Sean and Paul. Thanks a lot for letting me give my little VO shtick. And what I wanted to talk about is something that maybe a lot of us have to deal with, and that’s family.
And not in a way where they’re interrupting our recording, but in a way that we can involve them in what we do, especially our kids. Now, I have two kids that are eight and almost 10, and they just seem to be so intrigued with my booth, with my microphone, with my whole technical setup that I have. But of course, we know we can’t let our kids just go there and play with our knobs and jump up there and scream into our microphone.
But there are times when we can get them a little bit involved, get them in the booth, have a little bit of fun. And I do that with my kids sometimes, and it creates a lot of funny moments. Like this one.
Did you just fart in my booth? Oh man.
Oh, pew. Excuse me just a second. And in case you can’t tell, my son ripped one right in the booth.
Or, another thing I’ll do is sometimes let my kids get in the booth and just we’ll create a story. And sometimes I’ll go in there and pretend that they’re in a cave. And they’ll start telling a story.
And I’ll go in later and add some reverb, maybe some echo. And come up with something fun and enjoyable. Kind of like this.
I hope there were no monsters in here.
Or there are other times when they just get interested in what we’re doing. For example, I’ve got about 20 plus years of experience in the healthcare field, as a pharmacy technician and as an EMT. And so right now I’m kind of testing the waters into the world of medical narration, and I’ll be cutting a demo with that soon.
But as I practice for that and rehearse for that, they’ll pull out my EMT textbook or other medical textbooks, or we’ll talk about words, like transesophageal echocardiogram or coletocholithiasis, or medication terms like esomeprazole or phenopropanolamine. And that kind of gets the kids intrigued. They have fun with that.
And they surprised me one time. Last week I got this audio message from them on my phone.
Pneumo-ultra-microscopic-silovolcanoconiosis. Pneumo-ultra-microscopic-silocon-volcanoconiosis.
Hi, Dad, we love you. Hi, Dad, we love you.
The word they were saying was Pneumo-ultra-microscopic-silocon-volcanoconiosis, an inflammation of the lungs from breathing in volcanic silicate. Now, I have to tell you, that made my day, because what it showed is that they’re interested in what I’m doing. Perhaps even one day, they’ll be interested in trying their own hand at VO, but we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it.
So what is the end of my VO shtick? Get your kids involved. They will love what they’re doing.
They love to get in the booth. They love to record here on our microphone, because whereas you might spend a lot of time here, isolated in your booth, surrounded by padding, by all this foam on the wall, getting them in here with the booth with you or next to you will really draw you closer together. And that is one of the beautiful things about VoiceOver.
So thanks again. This is Jeff from Pacific VoiceOver, and I hope you all enjoyed my VO shtick.
Once again, that was Jeff Bugonian with our VO Meter shtick. Thank you very much for that story, Jeff. That was pretty hilarious.
Yeah, I can relate to that completely, having three kids myself, and they’re always knocking on the door. In fact, just now, I turned around and thought I saw my daughter in the corner of the booth, but it was actually my own reflection. It freaked me out.
That’s some creepy Blair Witch stuff right there.
Exactly.
But it actually reminded me, having your family support is absolutely crucial for work like this. And something that was kind of cool that I’ve got to do recently is, I actually did a medical narration class with my dad. Oh, awesome.
Yeah, he’s actually a retired pediatrician, and he’s got public speaking experience as well. So I mean, he’s very articulate, and he actually doesn’t make a lot of mistakes. He’s a good cold reader as well.
And he’s got all this great knowledge of medical jargon that just rolls off his tongue. So I thought it’d be great if we could do something like that together. And he was totally interested in it.
I thought he did a great job.
So is he going to do more voice overs?
I hope so. I might have to keep encouraging him, but we’ll see. I think he’s fine for it.
I think he’s great for it.
If nothing else, you have a built-in partner for dual point of view narration.
Oh, yeah. I didn’t even think about that. That’s great.
It’s part of my secret hope to get all of my family involved with it, so I can kind of hire out a stable of family narrators.
Or not hire and just pay them in roast beef.
I always thought it was a source of cheap labor, like a family. All right. So, Julie will be coming on in a couple of minutes, but since we are on the topic of coaching, Paul and I just wanted to kind of lead you through our own coaching journeys and sort of help kind of narrow down your search for possible reputable coaches that you can work with.
So I’ll go ahead and start. And when I started my VO journey about four years ago, I researched everything I could voiceover related for about a year. And then one of the coaches that impressed me was a man named Terry Daniel.
He’s a coach out of Minneapolis, Minnesota. And he’s actually got a Facebook group called The VoiceOver Camp for beginning journeyman VO talent, much like our audience. And so I found him online.
I found his articles on VoiceOver Extra. He’s also got a great podcast called… He’s actually got two.
He’s got The VoiceOver Cafe, which he does with a number of other great voice actors. And then he’s also got his short VO sermons or VoiceOver sermons, where he talks about the importance of coaching and having a quality demo and not getting started before you’re ready. And so I found out about him.
I reached out to him. And then we agreed to work together. And he’s got an incredible…
He’s definitely one of the most affordable coaches that I’ve researched and worked with. He’s got a wonderful package. He includes demo production for a commercial and narration demo.
And once you’ve coached with him, he actually gives you access to all of these recorded webinars that he’s created on different aspects of VoiceOver. And you’re welcome to attend any of his weekend script reading classes. So he’ll switch back and forth between having a script reading class and some kind of educational webinar, whether it’s like how to make a fully produced spot in Adobe Audition, or he might have an agency guest and do a Q&A.
So if you’re listening, Terry, thanks a lot.
Terry’s great, and I’m sure he’ll really appreciate you saying he has a wonderful package.
You want to redo that one? All right, are you sure? You sure you want to leave that in?
If you know Terry at all, you know his sense of humor, so that’s why I went there. But in all seriousness, he’s a great guy and a great coach. I actually did some work with him as well.
Yeah, aside from a crass sense of humor, he’s very professional.
Yeah. So I did work with Terry for my second demo, going a little out of order. But Terry, in the production of the demo, also did some coaching, obviously.
It doesn’t just leave you out to dry and set you to record. So he coached me through the demo production, and that came out great as well. I’ve had great results from that.
But my very first coaching experience was a little different. I was looking for… Well, I was looking for any opinions out there on where would be the best place to start as a complete, quote, unquote, newbie.
And I had some training going back decades, but when I was actually venturing into VoiceOver to actually look for business, I wanted to get some VoiceOver-specific coaching. And I solicited some opinions from other voice talent, put out some feelers on the VO BB, and got a recommendation for Edge Studio. And the way they approach things is sort of like a classroom approach.
It can be in person in their studios in New York or Los Angeles. They have one here in the Baltimore, DC region. Or they have Skype sessions as well.
And they have a pre-set program where it’s set up sort of like a university where you have a curriculum of classes that you need to go through, or you can sign up for and be part of a package, or you can choose things a la carte. If you do that package, there’s a price break, and then it helps you to sort of figure out where you need to go with your training. And that was really beneficial for me.
That’s exactly what I wanted. I know there’s other companies out there that have a similar approach like the GVAA, which you can talk about in a second. But for me, that was a good approach because I really didn’t know what I needed.
And I was able to get that preset curriculum and included a demo production at the end of the program. So they will not let you do a demo unless they think you’re ready, which I think is great. It was another thing I was looking for.
I didn’t want someone who was going to push me out the door without the right experience. So I even was like champing at the bit with the coaches and saying, am I ready yet? Am I ready yet?
And they said, hold on, pump your brakes. We have a few more classes and then you can do the demo. So I really appreciated that.
And when it was all said and done, I had the demo, I was an edge approved talent, which is a little logo you can put on your website. Had my demo done and within weeks was signed with three agencies. So I really was happy with those results.
Excellent, well done. And that is a smart way to format it, is sort of like a curriculum because any good coach will give you a sense, like a sort of timeline, or I mean, nobody can guarantee your success, but they’ll give you an idea of what your progress is and goals to reach and give you a level of preparation for the various stages of your VO career.
Yeah, I really like that concept, like I said. I reached out to some individual coaches and it was sort of really nebulous as to when or where I’d be able to move on or get a demo produced and that structure, like I said, really helped me. So who was your second experience or what other experiences have you had other than with Terry?
Let’s see, the second coach that I worked with was a Canadian voice talent named Deb Monroe. And she actually came on the recommendation of another talent who I had worked, or who a friend of mine in Japan. And so I did a couple of sessions from her and got, it was really interesting, like it was mainly to get a different perspective and just to continue my training in some way.
And kudos to Deb, she has actually reached out, she has sent auditions my way. She has, she let me know about an international agency that was accepting submissions. And so got me my first Irish and international agent, so that was cool.
And so this is something that people, like another sort of unthought of benefit of working with a coach, is if they believe in your ability, they might recommend you for work. And so, and they can grant you access to some of your first clients. So just another benefit of working with a reputable coach who works in the areas that you wanna work in.
Yeah, that’s great. So as far as other coaches that I’ve worked with, I’ve done a bunch of free or one-time sessions because I’m still kind of looking for that next direction I wanna go. So I did a course with, or a session with Jason Linear-White, and that was a free session that I won at Mid-Atlantic VoiceOver, but nevertheless, it was a coaching session on character work, and that was fun.
And I’ve done one session so far with Val Kelly, who’s a voice actress near me in the DC area, and also is the organizer and founder of the Mid-Atlantic VoiceOver Conference. So I did her Character Development 1 class, which was a group class with some other talent. And then tonight actually is the next one, Advanced Character Development, where we’re going to work on some other ways to develop a character, and I’m really looking forward to that as well.
Yeah, that has to be a lot of fun, because I love Val, and character work is her element, so I’m sure she’s got a lot of great advice for it.
Yeah, and then I’ve also done a session with Everett Oliver, who has a business called myboothdirector.com, and what he does is allow you to work with him remotely, or I guess in person, if you’re in LA, and he will direct you through auditions that you have, either from your agent or pay-to-plays or anywhere you have an audition, he will direct you for a fee and help you work through the copy, and it’s fantastic. He obviously knows what he’s doing. He’s a veteran of the business and several big agencies, and he’s fantastic to work with.
Yeah, and I’ve worked with him. I love Everett. He’s seriously, he’s given me so much more confidence in my auditions, because I mean, until recently, a lot of the work that I do is corporate narration, internal stuff, which is a very different mindset.
And so I just didn’t, I felt like I was lacking the energy or like the connection, the same connection for the commercial stuff. And Everett really helped boost my confidence in that area. So now I’m just like, make all this work on something two or three times and then it’s gone.
Like I don’t doubt myself as much. So thank you very much, Everett.
Yeah, he’s amazing. I’ve heard him referred to as the VO Whisperer or the Voice Actor Whisperer. And it’s so dead on.
Within one session, he nailed me to the point where I told my mom about the session and what Everett had said and she said, oh yeah, he nailed you. That’s exactly you. So it was amazing.
It’s like the cheapest psych therapy you’ll ever get.
Yeah.
Just make sure that, cause he charges $20 per script, not per project. So keep that in mind. I once sent him, we worked together for about an hour on three scripts for one project.
And I misguidingly thought that it was going to be $20.
I think it’s actually 25, but yeah, I know what you mean.
Or 25, yeah, maybe he upped his rates. But that’s still, I mean, that’s nothing. Most coaches will charge about 150 an hour, which is a reasonable rate.
But I mean, if you just need some help with an audition or to impress a client, then definitely look up myboothdirector.com and check out Everett Services.
Cool. So the last coach and current coach I work with, and I think I mentioned it earlier in the episode, is Sean Allen Pratt or just Sean Pratt. He is a audiobook specialist or narration specialist with over 800 books to his name now as a narrator and a fantastic audiobook or narration coach.
He will take you from the very beginning, if that’s where you are, or he works with veterans as well. And he also has an established curriculum, like we talked about, where there’s point A, here’s the steps you’re going to take. He actually has a textbook that he sends you, and by the end, you should be much improved, and that’s what I’m hoping.
I’m about a quarter of the way through the program now, and I can already see results. He’s really helped me tremendously, so thank you, Sean.
And he really helped me find my narrator’s voice as well. Thank you very much, Sean. I think he’s great, and he’s very flexible to work with.
He’s got reasonable rates, and he’s just a great coach, and he’s a good cheerleader for your business.
And I would say, when you meet Sean in person, don’t be intimidated, because he is a large man. Just tall. He’s from Oklahoma, and he looks every bit like the red-blooded American country boy.
And I did not realize that when I was talking to him on Skype. He was sitting down, and I saw him at Mavo, and I was looking up, saying, wow, nice to see you all the way up there. And I’m not a small guy.
I’m six feet tall. He’s going now by the phrase or the moniker, Ginger Yoda, and it’s totally true.
Ginger Yoda? Oh, that’s… Coach you, I will.
Coach you, I must. But… But yeah, he’s great, and I enjoy working with him a lot.
These next two coaches that I’m about to talk to you about, I’m pretty excited, because these are some of my voice acting idols who actually got into coaching just because they… it’s something that they enjoy, and education is meaningful to them, and they’re excellent teachers. And the first one is actually Pat or Patrick Fraley.
And if you watch cartoons in the 80s, you would recognize Pat. He was the voice of Crang and Baxter Stockman in the original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Let’s see, he has been in numerous…
like, he’s been in dozens and dozens of shows, aside from that. Those are just two of his more famous roles. And he’s got all of these wonderful…
he’s got this really unique coaching package where you buy a course from him, and it could be, say, creating characters or audiobook basics, advanced audiobook narration, documentary style narration, things like that. And then you’ll get a pre-recorded lesson, and then there’ll be an assignment. You record the assignment, and then you send it to him, and then he’ll give you an email feedback, and then you can progress to the next assignment for however long the course is.
And some people might be turned off by the fact that it’s a little less individualized attention, but he’s a very busy man, both as a voice actor and a coach, so I really appreciate him trying to make time for more students with a package like that. And it certainly helped me with my audio book and my narration reads, namely to slow down. But he’s great, and he’s always quick to respond to his emails, and he’s a lot of fun to work with as a coach.
And then there was also anime voice actor Crispin Freeman. So here’s someone who got into voice acting through a much more traditional onstage theater mindset, and so he’s very well trained himself, and he takes the craft very seriously. He’s very professional, and he’s very…
Like, even with all that, he can be a little intimidating presence-wise. He’s still a very accessible coach, and he gives you very usable techniques to have much more powerful character performances for animation and video game stuff. So I loved working with both of them, and I’m sure I’m gonna get more work with them soon.
So thank you very much, Patrick and Crispin.
Awesome. So that wraps up the brief history of coaching for Sean and I. And now we’re gonna talk to our featured guest, the coach and voice actor, Juilie Williams.
Okay. So we have now transferred to our Zoom room for our very first celebrity interview. We’re really growing.
But I’m very excited about our first guest. This woman has over 40 years of experience in doing voiceover in numerous genres and many decades of coaching under her belt. So we have an award-winning audiobook narrator, the publisher of the free VoiceOver Insider online voiceover magazine, and host of the free VoiceOver Insider podcast, Juilie Williams.
Welcome, Juilie.
Thank you. I’m still trying to get over the fact that you called me a celebrity.
Well, like we’re all unsung celebrities in voiceover, and you’ve certainly been in the industry for a very long time. So I’m very excited to hear your insight today.
Yeah, 40 years is a very long time, but don’t tell my clients. We can tell, you know, voiceover talents, but don’t tell my clients, because as far as they’re concerned, I’m 25 to 50. You know what I mean?
Yeah, you sound like it. I can see.
Your secret is safe with us.
Well, that’s good. I really appreciate you guys having me on today.
Yeah, I’m very excited. I mean, I’ve benefited from your magazine and from your podcast, so I’m happy to return the favor and have you on.
Awesome.
So with that, I’d really like to know, how did you get started in voiceover?
Oh, you know, I started like a lot of people did in radio. But that said, most radio people will not succeed in voiceover because there’s something that we have to have in radio, which is called the radio ego. And that’s actually not necessarily a bad thing.
I mean, you get treated like crap so much in radio that you have to have the ego in order to survive. I’ve had people call me up and say, how did you get your job on your back? You know what I mean?
Oh, no.
And then there’s the person that didn’t get the job when you did, and they’re calling you up or saying things about you. So you have to, when you’re in the limelight like in radio, you have to have enough of an ego, which took me time to build because I was not confident at all. But you’ve got to have enough of an ego.
And then what happens with that radio ego is because you do free commercials at a radio station and maybe a $50 spot for an advertising agency because it’s going to go on another station, you think, well, I know all about VoiceOver. And people coming from radio don’t realize that VoiceOver is a different industry. It’s not that they’re bad.
It’s not that they can’t do it. It’s just that it is a different industry, and it has different skills, and a lot of the radio skills will help. But, you know, there’s a lot of other skills that they need to get, and they think they don’t need training.
And a lot of them, unfortunately, become coaches because, you know, the radio ego thing.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
So what made you switch to VO?
Oh, well, I actually didn’t leave radio until 2000, I don’t know, 12. And I started VoiceOver in, well, you guys probably weren’t born back then, but 1977.
Hey, I was three years old.
So, I mean, that was… I started when I was in high school, so… But over time, see, back then, when I started, the VoiceOver and the radio industries were much more in sync.
They were looking for the announcer types, the good voices and all that. But over time, that changed. And I think that’s sort of the generational thing.
I think that, you know, GenX came along, okay? Which is now the old people, but it used to be the younger hip people. Thank you very much.
Hey, I’m older than you. I mean, I barely do, but I fall into, what do they call the older ones, the baby boomers?
Right, I still think I’m cool. It’s just my kids that tell me I’m not.
What happened at one point, and probably like starting in the 80s, but really in the 90s, where it really came to be, was that the GenXers were the ones who were doing the casting, and they didn’t want someone to say buy now. They wanted somebody to give them the information and let them decide if they want to buy now, because they didn’t want to be told what to do. So the whole industry kind of changed and became a more conversational and more telling, less selling type of industry.
But what happened in the radio industry is that didn’t change. And so that’s why I don’t even remember how we got on the subject of radio, but that’s how I started. But I had to adapt with the industry.
I mean, I was behind at one point in the 90s, and I don’t know if you guys know Dick Orkin, the most amazing man in the world from the Dick Orkin Radio Ranch. It was under his tutelage that I really became… He’s a good friend of mine, and I became a communicator in the 90s as opposed to an announcer, thankfully in time, you know, for the…
You know, a little bit behind, like maybe a year or so behind the times, but people were still hiring that announcer sound back then, so I was still continually working, but, you know, became that communicator. So, you know, that’s… We were going to talk about coaches today, and one of the things I would say watch out for is the coaches who have really had more radio experience than VoiceOver.
But at the same time, I don’t know, do you guys know who Bo Weaver is?
Oh, yeah, definitely big promo talent.
Yeah, he came from radio as well. I mean, he and I worked together in 1982 or something like that, and he helped me to put together my first actual VoiceOver demo. I was working already, but I didn’t have a demo back then and helped me to get in with my very first agent in Houston, Texas, way back in the early 80s.
And he is one who has succeeded, as have I, in transitioning from radio to VoiceOver. But that comes from understanding that it is a different industry and you have to adapt to it. And a lot of coaches that we’re going to be talking about…
I’m not naming specific names, but a lot of coaches come from radio and think that they’re great VoiceOver people because they’ve done radio commercials. And that’s just something you have to watch out for because they’re really not going to teach you well.
Well, it’s like you’re saying, it’s a different skill set. And I’m actually going to change the order of my questions a little bit because you proved to be quite the excellent student. You’ve got a lot of mentors who are very integral to your success.
So with that in mind, what do you think makes a good student a VoiceOver? Someone who comes in with an open mind and really is just open to any feedback and just wants to improve and become competitive.
Well, you know, it is the open mindedness. And the other thing is that I worked in radio with Bo Weaver and he was incredible back then too. So I was in awe of him.
So that’s part of it. And I was in awe of Dick Orkin. So I took them seriously.
And the other thing that really helps, and now this helped back with Bo Weaver and when I was first getting started, is that I wasn’t overly confident. I was in radio, but I wasn’t overly confident in my VoiceOver skills. And so I was totally willing and open to listening to what this, you know, god of radio, what was it that he used to say on the radio?
Like Tide was America’s favorite laundry detergent, he used to say, America’s favorite DJ. You know, I mean, I was basically in awe of him. And so when they taught me what they taught me, I had an openness to it because I knew that they were successful, and I didn’t feel like I know it all.
And unfortunately, that radio ego that is absolutely necessary to survive can make some people think, well, I know it all already. In fact, somebody… This is so funny.
Somebody mentioned a narration class, and they’d been screwed over or something like that, and I went on and I said, I’m sorry you hear that or whatever. And this other guy comes in and says, a narration class? What does anyone need about a narration class?
You just open the mic and talk. Yeah. I know.
I’m thinking, okay, so you get a job once a year? Okay, that’s good. You’re not going to make a living at this.
You’ve got to have the skills in narration and other things. You don’t just… Your mother’s brother might hire you, but for the most part, you don’t just open the mic and talk.
It’s like we were talking about before. There’s this misconception. We have all of these…
We understand that certain people at the top of their game, whether they be actors or models or athletes, they all have coaches. They all practice and train, and nobody bats an eye at that. But for some reason, we think this is completely accessible.
Anyone can do it.
Right. Chris Carmichael coached Lance Armstrong. Do you think Chris could have beat him on a bike?
Not by the time he was coaching him, but he was an incredible coach for him. And Lance became an incredible cyclist under Chris Carmichael’s tutelage. You know, I mean, I still do coaching with people for two reasons.
Number one, how sad would it be if my entire knowledge base and all of my skills were based exclusively on my experience, even though it’s been 40 years? You know, if I couldn’t go to Pat Fraley, who also has 40 years experience, and learn something from his experience, or go to Lisa Biggs, who has… I don’t know, 10 or 20 years experience, and learn what she’s learned, because we’ve all had different experiences.
And how sad is it if I had to spend my entire life with only the benefit of my experience in this industry? That’s pretty sad. So that’s one reason I coach.
And the other reason is because when I find someone who I’m coaching, that they’re just not getting it. You know, we’re all different. I have…
Fortunately, I’m a gifted teacher, and I credit God for that, not me. But there are occasional students that just don’t… I just can’t get there.
And I don’t know if they can’t get there or if it’s me. So I want to know what the other coaches are doing, so I can… You know, I have in my contract, I don’t give refunds, but when I can’t help somebody, I typically offer them a refund and refer them to another coach.
Someone who I know isn’t going to take advantage of them as like a predator, but somebody who’s going to try to coach them, and if they can’t, they’ll refer them elsewhere, you know?
Wow, that is really… That’s a great policy to have.
That’s wonderful. Well, I was going to say, it’s like people might think that you’re competing because you’re technically in the same industry of coaching, but it’s such a relative… It’s such a subjective thing, and you can’t expect every student to jail with every coach.
So we highly encourage people, if you can, to try a variety of coaches, like maybe just one or two sessions, and figure out if that’s a good fit for you first.
And there’s… You’ve also got to consider motivations. I mean, we’re all voice over talent or voice over coaches, but we also have life motivations, and I’m a very religious person.
And so my mission statement, which I’ve only seen one other voice over talent with a mission statement… They should read Stephen Covey’s Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Anyway, my mission statement is to honor God by ensuring that all of my clients and students get more out of our relationship than I do.
And that’s not about business. That’s about my religious values, right? And so if that’s undergirding, if that would be the right word, my coaching, I have more than just my business to think about if I say, wait, this person isn’t getting better.
I’m not helping this person. I need to find somebody who can, and then I need to just walk away from it. I mean, then it’s out of my hands, but I need to try to find the best coach I can for them so that they can thrive.
And I’ve found that using that mission statement, it’s been about two people in ten years that I’ve had to do that to. Most of the others, you know, they’re working. And they are thriving because something happens, and I’ll…
well, I shouldn’t probably say this out loud because everyone might want one, but I’ll throw in an extra session, or for a certain person, I’ll help them get in with an agent, or for a certain person, I send them to a client. You know, it just depends on whatever their particular strengths and needs are, you know. But a lot of coaches aren’t willing to do stuff like that.
Well, you talk about what sets you apart as a coach. What do you think in general makes a good coach, or what should people look for when they’re seeking out coaching for the first time, or maybe even an advanced coaching session? What should people look for in a good coach?
Okay, in a good coach, what you want to find is a couple things. First of all, get lots of reference. Ask them for like 10 different references.
And check them out and go to those references, like their web pages. So you know it’s not somebody’s brother-in-law who’s going to be hired to say that. You know what I mean?
Go to the talent’s website. Listen to their demos. Because most coaches, like I, produce demos.
And listen to the demo and hear if it’s any good. You know, is the talent any good? Because you know what?
If the talent’s not any good and they’ve got a demo, that tells you something about the coach. Because if they’re willing to produce, for the money, a demo for a talent who is not ready to be competitive within the industry, I’m sorry, that’s not a good thing. And that’s one of the issues I have with certain people who are not coaches but just demo producers, is, you know, they’ll, a lot of times they don’t, they don’t coach the talent through the demo session and that’s actually very important as well.
So you go there and then you contact that talent and you ask them and get, again, at least 10 references. Or more. If someone’s a good coach, they’ve, I mean, I can’t even tell you how many people I’ve coached.
Off the top of my head, I probably send somebody if they’re asking six or seven or eight references, but I could go into my files and find another 20 references. And then they can make that decision. You know, another thing about a good coach is that they don’t just coach newbies, but they coach people who have been in the industry for a while.
And they coach them great. I mean, there’s a lady that I coach who did some national stuff, like a national, what was it, Sunsweet Prune Juice spot. And I know that because I did her demo and I put that spot on the demo.
Normally a demo is what you can do, not what you have done, but it was incredible, so I put it on there. And she is someone who is a direct competitor to me as far as, as much as anybody can be, as far as, you know, our sound, our age range and all that. When it comes down to it, there’s no one who’s a direct competitor, you, because there’s only one Paul and there’s only one Sean.
If they want a great guy, okay, fine. You guys could compete against each other, right? But if they want a specific sound, if they want Paul, Sean doesn’t qualify.
If they want Sean, Paul, you’re not going to measure up. You know what I mean?
We were just talking about that, actually, offline. We share an agent, we share an agent, and we both have the same audition sitting in our inbox. And I was trying to dissuade Sean from doing it.
They’ll know if they want my sound versus yours. They’re quite distinct.
Yeah, and see, that’s just it. Distinct, that’s what’s important. And a good coach will also find what distinguishes you.
So here’s what I do. First of all, I start with one curriculum in that for the first session or two, everybody is reading the same, what I call assessment scripts. Okay, and I am assessing them.
It’s not a test, everybody has strengths, everybody has weaknesses, I will find both. There is nobody that’s gonna come to me that doesn’t have any weaknesses. And there’s nobody that doesn’t have any strengths.
So I will find both. And then within a couple of weeks, then I start sending them individualized scripts based on what are their goals, and what are the strengths and weaknesses that I’ve seen so far, so we can work on that. And then after a while, I get into what I call golden tools.
And those are several, I start introducing several unique techniques to see how they do at those, to separate them from everybody else. And also what ends up happening, which is wonderful, I love being a part of this, is different techniques that I don’t even think about emerge from them. And those become the golden tools of that talent.
And that’s when it’s time to do a demo, when they’re doing great, because you need to, okay, Liberace was such a talent, but he had to have lessons too. And so you gotta think about stuff like that. He had to have some coaching, but then he became incredible.
But it isn’t just talent, it’s also skill that he developed with hard work and training, right? And so that’s incredibly important. But once somebody differentiates themself, and they’re not just any old voice, then they’re ready for a demo.
And you’ve got to, the coach has to know them well enough to keep in mind this person has this strength and they speak a little bit of Hindu or whatever. Is that the language or is it Hindi? I don’t know.
Hindi, okay, so they speak Hindi. No, they speak a little Hindi or whatever it is that you wouldn’t have even known, but you get to know the person. And you know what I’ll do with something like speak a little Hindi is I’ll throw one line in there for something and then if they need to do something in Hindi, obviously I’m not gonna be able to help them much in that arena, but at least that says one little line is in there or if they do a great imitation of somebody.
Okay, so I don’t do impersonation demos or animation or anything like that. I refer people out for that. But I might put just a little line in there to be as a bridge between their signature sound and their uniqueness, their golden tools, just as sort of a bridge so things don’t ever start to sound too much alike, too similar.
Wonderful, so that ties in with our next question. Because I mean, your first goal is to really get them to that competitive level and then kind of find that unique selling point that really distinguishes them from the crowd. What I’m curious about is you have so many different students coming to you with so many different goals and interests.
How do you help them sort of figure out what their niche is in the voiceover industry or their niches are? And do you ever find that a student might have a goal that you’re like, no, no, no, no, you’re not good for audio books. Now automotive demos or automotive spots, that’s your wheelhouse.
Well, you know, I usually don’t have trouble helping them with their desires. But a lot of times they’re like, well, I want to do this and I want to do animation, but I also want to learn e-learning. And I said, I can help you with the e-learning and then I will refer you to somebody else for this other thing.
And so that’s, I’m not going to tell somebody they can’t do it. I know the guy who told George Strait that he was going to never amount to anything. I know him personally and I’m never going to be that person.
Plus I’m never going to be a dream smasher. Just because they’re not doing well now, there was one guy that I told, I said, look, I know this is your dream, but I just want to tell you based on our sessions that it will take you a lot longer than most people and it is going to cost you a lot more than most people to become competitive within this industry. But I’m not going to say you can’t do it.
How do I know they can’t do it? And it’s not my place to say, give up on your dream, like a lot of people do. There are coaches out there who I’ve heard, and I’m not going to name them, but I’ve heard they basically, recently, I found out that one of my students had been told by a San Francisco coach, you just don’t have what it takes.
And then there are other coaches who treat the students like, how dare you come to me when you’re not good enough? And I’m thinking, yeah, duh, why do you think they came to you? You know, you had a reputation and they wanted to grow.
And if you can’t coach somebody who’s, quote, not good enough, what good are you as a coach? Because that’s what you’re there for.
That’s a great approach.
And I get everybody from busy working New York talent to the person who was told they had a good voice and thought it might be nice to do voiceover, or the person who is about to retire as a doctor and is looking for something to bring in money in retirement. You know what I mean? All sorts of people come.
But you’ve got to treat them with respect. You’ve got to look for their strengths and their weaknesses because once you get there, their weaknesses are not going to make them sore. Their strengths are where they can soar.
So you get their weaknesses and you bring them up to great. And then you take their strengths and you bring them up to, oh my God. And that’s when you’ve got a good talent.
Awesome. A lot of our talent…
One of my techniques is to… I do like an immersion technique, like I’m going to throw you into Mexico to learn Spanish. You know what I mean?
I’m going to throw you in the deep end, but I’m going to be there for you the whole time. And so I will throw eight or nine… I have about 40 techniques I teach.
And I will throw eight or nine techniques at a student in that very first session and the second and the third. But I’m going to be there with a lifeline the entire time and I make them record the sessions because you can’t get it all in one session. You have to…
Their homework every week is to listen back at least once, plus whatever else I individualize for them. And so I work with them with all of these things and eventually they become instinctive and then I build a little bit more as I go. You know, they learn these couple of techniques, but they’re still working on these other, but I’ll throw in another couple more.
And so they grow. One person said he learned more with me in one session than his other coach in 10. And I found that…
I was honored to find that out, but it’s the full immersion technique. It’s throwing them into the deep end. But of course, when you do that, you have to be there with a lifeline for them.
That’s great.
Yeah, that’s wonderful. And obviously, Juilie, you’re a coach who holds themself to a very high standard of integrity. I’m curious, and you’ve hinted at this before, what are some things that students should look to avoid or some red flags when they’re researching coaches?
We hear this term tossed around a bit. We call them predatory coaches, ones who actually prey on unsuspecting talent in their wallets. So can you…
I know this is a topic that you’re very passionate about. So can you talk a little bit about that?
Yeah, first of all, with coaches, I find four categories. There are predatory coaches, there are good coaches, there are incompetent coaches, and there are… What was the other one?
I can’t remember. But okay, it’ll come to me. So the incompetent coaches are people who mean well.
They just really aren’t qualified to be coaching, okay? And a lot of those are the ones I talked about earlier that came from, say, a radio background, which there’s nothing wrong with, but it’s a different industry, okay? So they shouldn’t be coaching in this industry till they’re working in this industry, right?
And then you’ve got the good coaches who are very reputable. And then you’ve got the predatory coaches who I can’t name or I’ll be in trouble, but it is such a shame that people like that are out there. And there’s one, for example, in San Marcos, California, there is a studio that I can’t name, but the man and woman who run it apparently did some voice overs in the 80s.
And they have an agent friend that comes in and fawns over everybody. And they have classes there. And when they do, here’s a couple of things.
They tell the people not to become friends with each other because your student is your competitor. That’s not our industry, I’m sorry. And my competitor friends, I have an infomercial client who said, you know, Juilie, I love you and I’ll always come to you first, but I’ve got this other infomercial that is a competing product from such and such.
And so I recommended another lady, VoiceOver Talent, who was a direct competitor to me, because that’s what they needed. You can be recommended for stuff. Plus, hey, man, this industry is way too hard not to support each other.
Absolutely. And as we’ve mentioned, I mean, the whole reason we started the podcast was to really pay forward that spirit of generosity that we see every day.
Exactly, exactly. And we get that online and we get that, you know, we don’t learn a whole lot when we go to places like VO Atlanta. And we don’t meet clients there, but we get the camaraderie, we learn some things and we get the camaraderie of other talents and we become known to other talents who could possibly hire us and have nothing else, you know, be a support system, answer the question, you know, do I use Source Connect or whatever?
You know what I mean?
I find that’s one of the hardest parts to get across to new talent is that the industry really is giving like that, especially if they’re in another entertainment industry like on-screen acting or radio. Because like you said, that competitive spirit has to be there in order to make it in those fields. When I tell people that VoiceOver is not like that, they sort of look at me with a stink eye and say, yeah, whatever, until they actually experience it.
And then it’s like a breath of fresh air.
Yeah, I’ve seen people… The first time I taught it at the Voice Conference in Los Angeles, I saw a lady who talked to me and said, she came alone and she was so afraid to come because she thought that everybody sitting around her was going to hate her because they were all competitors. And then she found out that she was received with love by everybody.
And everybody was willing to help each other. And that’s awesome within this industry. But when you’re looking at predatory coaches, here’s one of the things to look for.
Ask about their curriculum. If they have the same curriculum for everybody, for example, one company that I cannot name has such a bad model, if you would ask me. They have the same curriculum for everybody.
You pay $4,500, okay? You’ll get 10 lessons. Then you’ll get, I don’t know, one or two demos, okay?
And of course you pay in advance for them all. Well, I have had students that were even newbies that were ready for demos after four sessions. It’s not common, but it has happened.
And I’ve had other students that have been successful, but it took 15 sessions to get them there. And everybody is different, even when they’re new or whether they’ve been around a while, everybody’s different. So for 10 sessions and two demos, I would be like under $3,000, you know?
And so they’re charging a whole lot. Why I keep my demo prices low anyway, because people who need demos, they don’t have $4,500 to pay per demo, so $1,800 for one demo, as opposed to I do $1,700 for two. They just don’t have the money.
And they’re like mortgaging the house to get this.
Yeah, that’s a huge overinflation for that price. Like $1,700 is pretty standard, but $45,000, that is ridiculous.
Exactly, and that includes 10 sessions, but what if they only need three? What if they only need five? Okay, the other thing is they pay coaches a very low rate.
Like one that is such a scam pays coaches about $25 an hour. And I found through students that have come to me that are literally in tears, and I’m talking a whole lot more than one, because they went with this company. And I found with one that his coach was a woman who had been in voice overs for about two years.
I have no idea if she was working. And she made $25 an hour and coached 30 hours a week. So with her-
Where’s the bulk of her income coming from?
And yeah, and with this massive two years of experience, what does she have to offer? Well, I can tell you, not a whole lot. And then with this company, they send their students in for the demo, and the coach does not coach them, the engineer does.
Okay, well, an engineer, I’m sorry, very few engineers are qualified to coach. I’m not gonna say none are, but engineers can give you a beautiful, wonderful, high quality recording of crap that the only one who’s gonna love is your mother. And so if the engineer is coaching you, yeah, I would run away from that for sure.
And then coaches that have very little experience, again, like this one lady, you know? And I’m gonna tell you, if a coach is working for 25 bucks an hour, they’re not a good coach. Gotta tell you that because they can’t afford to.
You know, I could never afford to work for that. Coaching itself, I charge between 100 and 150 an hour, depending on what packages they buy, like five sessions, one session, five sessions or 10 sessions. And if they buy 10 and they’re ready after five, then we go and we do the demo.
And after the fact, we start working on what do I do now? And how do I get that agent and all that other stuff? There’s a lot more.
I consider myself a voiceover life coach because I’m not just there when they’re in a session with me. I’m there to help them with whatever they need, whether it be… I’m not on somebody’s payroll to recommend for branding or to recommend for websites or whatever, but you’ve got to guide people along because if they start stepping out on their own, they make a lot of mistakes that they didn’t need to make.
So, coaches with little experience don’t have that. But I got to say, even at $100 to $150 an hour, I mean, seriously, if that were a voice over that took you 15 minutes, that $150 is a bottom feeder job, and I leave it for my students. You know what I mean?
Yeah.
So, VoiceOver pays, by the hour, a whole lot more than coaching does. And so, when you’ve got somebody who’s $25 an hour, coaching, how in the world are they making a living? Well, it’s really easy.
They’re only making a living coaching as opposed to VoiceOver because, you know, that’s good money to them because it’s much more than flipping burgers.
That’s a great frame of reference.
Yeah. But if they were actually able to get money in VoiceOver, they wouldn’t be doing it for that price.
So, Juilie, going back to the types of coaching you do, one thing we want to ask, because a lot of our audience is newcomers, how does… When someone’s looking for a coach, what’s the first genre, if there is one, that they should approach? Or do you think that there should be more of a holistic approach?
Well, no, not a holistic approach. Not anymore. It used to be a holistic approach, but really not anymore.
But you know, that really depends on them. I mean, if somebody… Okay, take Bob Bergen.
He always wanted to be Porky Pig. So if he were to… And he is.
But if he were to go into LA and say, well, they said I should start with audiobooks, you know? That wouldn’t help them towards becoming Porky Pig. So you know, it’s basically…
And one of the things I do in my very first session, is I spend about 20 to 30 minutes, almost half the session, getting to know them and what are their desires. And then how can I help them with that? I usually do encourage a commercial and narration slash e-learning demo.
And here’s why. For some reason, even if you don’t want to do commercials, it’s still pretty standard that if you want to get an agent, you have to have a commercial demo. That’s what they ask for.
And so that’s kind of like, you need it. And then e-learning is so… It’s growing so fast.
I just posted an article on the e-learning narrator’s Facebook page that Jack DeGoglia put together. I think it’s going to be like… What did it say?
A $25 billion industry by 2025? It is growing so much. And so for people who are interested, it’ll take them a lot less time to be able to get money in narration and e-learning than it will take them to become Mickey Mouse.
Because you’re right. A lot of people aspire to be in animation. Some don’t, but some want to be the voice of this product or that product.
And I got this advice too when I started about four or five years ago. Commercial and narration is where a lot of the work is. Right.
I agree completely. That is where you start. And I was going to say, especially from a non-union standpoint, e-learning and corporate narration is a global industry.
So you don’t need to be a union affiliated to pursue it.
Oh, absolutely. In fact, I make more… It’s so funny.
I make more in e-learning than a lot of union people. I had a friend of a friend in the union that I was talking to, and we talked for a while, and he was saying… And this is a guy who had done a lot of very respectable work.
You know, things go up and down. This is a great guy. And he is like, I can’t get arrested in this town.
And then 15 minutes later, he’s saying, Juilie, you need to join the union. And I am not against the union at all. Don’t get me wrong.
But I’m like, okay, but my union friends aren’t working, and I am. So why would I pay, what, $3,000 or whatever when I’m getting work and I’m working for union type wages? I’m not doing the $150 bottom feeder jobs.
The only thing I’ll do for $150 is coach because I want to help people and because I really enjoy teaching and enjoy the, oh my gosh, the gratification you get when all of a sudden somebody gets it. I get so proud. I know that sounds stupid.
That actually comes into really well with our last question. And I just want you to kind of talk about some of the, like you’ve had a very rich and varied career in VoiceOver. What were some of the highlights for you?
Because I mean, I know in your coaching materials and on the VoiceOver Insider podcast, you’ve had some amazing celebrity guests and coaches that you’ve worked with to provide materials to your audience. So you’re welcome to just talk about some happy memories with a student or working with one of your mentors. Just some highlights for you.
Well, you know what? It is great meeting all these people and teaching at the conferences and stuff like that. But probably, I would say definitely hands down, the biggest experience for me in VoiceOver that is the most treasured moment came in 1996.
And that was when I was cast in a Pampers commercial with my son, who was six at the time.
Wow.
And we sat in, and it’s so funny, because that’s the first spot on my demo. And it’s a great spot, and also I love it.
And he’s got a brilliant mind, so he just memorized everything so quickly. But he was sitting on my lap, and we were sitting in the agent’s office. That was back when you went in for auditions.
And we were talking to the microphone, and we went through the whole thing, and there was such a connection, a mother-son connection there, because we were mother and son. And we both got cast in it. It was like magic.
And for me, he does not sound like that. He doesn’t sound like that anymore, since he’s 27 almost. But that was the highlight of my career.
And you got a little audio time capsule right on your demo. That’s beautiful.
Yes, exactly. And some people had told me to take it off, but you know what? When I had…
You have to have other people listen to your demo too, no matter how long you’ve been doing it, because you have to separate yourself from it. And Pat Fradley listened to it, and he was like, that’s the best spot on there. And he didn’t know at the time that it was my son, and we’d been cast together.
And most of the stuff on my demo are not jobs I’ve done, or at least I re-voiced them, you know, for the actual demo. But that one spot is one that I did, and I treasure it, and no matter what anybody says, I’m never going to take it off.
Your cold dead body, right?
So that was my most wonderful experience.
Does your son still do voiceover?
No, he doesn’t. He’s an IT guy. He did some voiceover and on camera for a long time, but it just wasn’t him, you know?
And I kind of, I don’t want to say pushed him into it, but I encouraged him into it.
Yeah, I think we all do that if the opportunity is there.
But it just turned out that that might have been one of the last things he did. I really don’t remember, but it just wasn’t him. He wasn’t excited about it.
I mean, he liked it when he made, you know, 100 bucks, 200 bucks here and there. He was an extra in a Maxwell House commercial. And, you know, they paid him in cash.
And we went out and bought a little tablet thingy as far as tablets were in those days. You know, I mean, he liked things like that. You know, that the money came in and he could go buy a toy.
But, you know, as far as doing the actual work, it wasn’t… he didn’t really care one way or the other. So I wasn’t going to continue investing financially and the time it took.
Because back then, we were going from San Antonio to Dallas because he had an audition. So we’re driving up there, seven hours, drive up there, stay at a hotel, come back. So it was a certain amount of expense and a certain amount of time because he had this audition for Walker Texas Ranger, you know.
Because he did on camera, too. Yes, love him. So, you know, it just…
he just ended up not really being the right person for that.
But that’s still so cool that you have that memory for him. And I love that the sense of ownership that you have with your demo. Because, I mean, you’re confident in it, and it’s uniquely you.
And, yeah, don’t change it.
Well, and that’s what I do with my students, is I make sure that their demos are uniquely them. And I’ll tell you when… you know, some people say, like, you’re like, well, when is it time to update your demo?
Someone will say, when you get the big job, or every two years, or whatever. I say it’s time to update your demo when I want to hand it to you and say, here’s my demo, but I’m really better than that. That’s when it’s time to update your demo to where you can be confident with it.
Even if the second demo isn’t really any, quote, better than the first one, you have to have the confidence. And plus, when you feel that way, it usually means that you have improved your skills to the point where you do need a new demo. Mm-hmm.
I know I’m going to work on that this year. But frankly, I still get new clients with my current one, so it can’t be that bad.
Exactly. And that’s the way I feel with mine. I mean, I redid it a couple of years ago, and I worked with Deb Monroe on it.
We kind of traded out. She coached me through my commercial demo, and I coached her through her e-learning and narration demo, because we each had to update those specific ones. And so, you know, I know I coach people through commercial demos, but I’m not going to do my own, because I think that’s stupid.
And when people do their own, I’m sorry, but I think that’s stupid. And Deb felt the same way. And so when it came to doing her narration demo, she came to me, because I specialize in that, and we did kind of a trade, and it worked out great for both of us.
I mean, it was just the coaching thing. I took care of the post-production. She took care of her post-production.
But the coaching itself, we did a trade-out, and I think we each got the best in our particular genres, and the demos attest to that.
But that is too cool. And maybe it’s my theater background creeping in a little bit, but when you have that actor-director relationship, you really can make something so much better than either of you separately.
Exactly.
And it really speaks to your integrity. You were mentioning before you never really… Like, you don’t coach people outside of your areas of expertise, and you refer to them to others who do.
Oh, yeah, I couldn’t do that. It wouldn’t be right.
That’s wonderful. Well, anyways, Juilie, thank you so much. I mean, you’ve just been a font of information, and you’ve got some great stories.
How can people get a hold of you or find your VoiceOver Insider if they’re interested?
Okay, well, the VoiceOver Insider is voiceoverinsider.com. And you can sign up on the upper right-hand corner where it says, you know, sign up or subscribe or something like that. And listen to the podcasts.
Just click on podcasts, and you can see there are so many incredible podcasts on there. I learned so much from these podcasts, so I know that they’re helpful for others because I learn. I mean, the most recent one we did was on CRMs, and I’m about to do one on ISDN alternatives, as well as, like what we were talking about, programs that you can use to record both ends like we need for podcasts.
So patching in remote direction, things like that.
Right. And if you want to…
I’ve learned practically everything I know from podcasts and webcasts, including yours, Juilie.
Thank you. And then there is, if you want to know about my coaching, it’s juliewilliamscoaches.com. And if you want to email me, it’s julie at voiceovers.com.
Got in pretty early, but not early enough to get voice overs without the hyphen.
That’s not bad.
Yeah, talent Bill Murray in Atlanta area or something like that got that first.
Yeah, I think Dr. Kell owns the rest. Everything else voice over related.
Oh, and if you forget, just voiceovers.com.
Yes, Juilie at voiceovers.com.
Perfect. Thank you so much, Juilie. It’s been a real pleasure having you.
Oh, Sean and Paul, it’s an honor that I got to be on your great podcast.
Thank you so much. Well, I mean, you really set a high standard of the educational and informational content that you put out for free, and I really thank you so much for maintaining that level of integrity and quality. So thank you.
Oh, thank you. I want to add one more thing. I’ve got this entire packet.
It’s an online packet. And the VoiceOver Insider used to be like a 40-page literal magazine every month, but I couldn’t keep doing it that way, so it’s not anymore. But I’ve got a lot of archives and I’ve got a lot of articles I’ve written that are about how to differentiate yourself from other people and all that.
And I give that packet to people for free. I just, you know, you send me an email and I attach it and, you know, say, let me know if you have any questions. So if anybody, any of your listeners, if you guys would like to email me at julie at voiceover.com and ask for my resources, VoiceOver resource packet or something like that, I will attach that and you will have umpteen zillion articles from the VoiceOver Insider.
You’ll have a handful of articles I’ve written. There’s just lots of stuff in there.
That is too cool. Thank you.
We’re not united by our dozens of listeners. We will push the envelope and try and get you some…
Well, you will grow. Your dozens of listeners. My podcast now have over 40,000.
Your dozens of listeners will grow because you’re offering good content and that’s what it takes. You know, offering good content and then letting people know it’s there and then word of mouth spreads.
Awesome. Thank you very much. Like I said, rising tide raises all ships.
So once again, that was the wonderful Juilie Williams and we’re going to take it back to the podcast studio right after this.
So thank you once again to Juilie Williams. That was fantastic information and a lot of it. So I hope you guys were taking notes.
Yeah, that was it. Thank you so much, Juilie. You are a true fond of information and inspiration.
So thank you so much. And once again, you can find her at voiceovers.com or just look up Juilie Williams VoiceOver Coach or in a Google search, and then you can find her website that way. So that wraps up Episode 9 of The VO Meter.
Measuring Your Voice Over Progress.
Thanks again for listening. We’ve got a lot of exciting episodes coming up. We’ve got the guys, Dan Letter and George Whitham, coming up in a future episode.
So we were featured on their show, VOBS, a few weeks ago. And now we’re returning the favor and bringing them here. We also have a VoiceOver blog writer, Paul Stracuerta, and as well as some local, or excuse me, not local, but In the Trenches voice actors, Stephen J.
Cohen and Jack DeGolia. So thank you all so much. If you’d like to contribute to the show, or if you have questions for Paul or myself, just check us out on vometer.com.
Thanks again for listening. Thanks for listening to The VO Meter. Measuring Your Voice Over Progress.
To follow along, please visit www.vometer.com.

The VO Meter, Measuring Your Voice Over Progress.
Welcome everybody to Episode 8 of The VO Meter.
Measuring Your Voice Over Progress.
We are going to talk about lots of events today. We have a VO Meter shit coming up from Heather Masters, and of course, questionable gear purchases. But first, how are you today, Sean?
I’m doing all right. I’m actually in Seattle right now recording from a hotel room. So that’s why things, you might hear the occasional vacuum cleaner or siren outside.
But at least the acoustics problems are taken care of for the most part. I’m using the review unit that I got from Adil Aliyev for the carry-on vocal booth version 2.0. We can talk a little bit more about him later, but he’s actually working on a newer version of that.
Aside from having to deal with like less than ideal recording situation, I’m having a good time. What about you, Paul?
Things are good. Work every couple of days, if not every day. Couple of new agents signed with over the last couple of weeks.
That’s exciting.
Very nice.
And yeah, just plugging along as always.
Very cool.
So what’s in Seattle?
Some of you know I was an English teacher or an ESL. English is a second language teacher for several years. And my older brother is as well.
And there’s actually a TESL, or Teaching English to Speakers of Other Language Conference, going on at the Convention Center. So him being in Boston, I helped sort of coordinate the travel plans and booked the hotel and found a place that’s a wonderful location. It’s like a 10, 15 minute walk from the Convention Center.
But it’s also, that’s about all it has going for it.
Interesting. I didn’t know there was a way to properly pronounce that acronym.
TESOL?
Yeah. Interesting. I would have always just said T-O-E-S-L.
Oh no. Yeah, well, I mean, if you have to write it or say it enough, you’ll say TESOL.
Yeah, there’s a way to pronounce every acronym. It’s one of the challenges of working with certain industries. They all have their own jargon that you need to learn before you can actually converse with everybody.
Speak the language, yeah.
Yeah, exactly. So one other thing I wanted to mention is that you and I have actually been booked on another show. Do you want to talk a little bit to the listeners about that?
Yeah, that’s really cool. We’ve actually been booked on VOBS, that’s a voiceover body shop, starring audio engineer George Widom and the home studio master and voice actor, Dan Leonard. So this is, I don’t know about you, Paul, but this is really exciting for me.
You guys have heard us mention the show several times on the podcast, and honestly, almost everything that Paul and I know about audio was from these two guys.
It’s like a kid in a candy store. I can’t believe they actually asked us to do it, but we’ll do our best to impress and hopefully have some fun at the same time.
Absolutely, I mean, it’s gonna be way better than our earlier show. We’ve appeared a couple times on their fan round table, and I was in Japan at the time, so the internet quality was less than stellar, and the delay was just awful, but the guys were really great sports, and it was just fun to be there live.
Yeah, we’ll have to tease them, because two weeks ago, I think it was Anthony Mendez was on, and he was saying that he thinks he may be the most return trip guest, or the guest that has made the most return trips, and I was thinking, well, if you count our crazy round tables, you and I are gonna be on three times now.
Yeah, absolutely, well, I mean, but that’s a little bit different. They brought, like, he’s a paid guest.
I know, I’m just trying to make myself feel better. But anyway, that should be a lot of fun. And join us on April 3rd at 6 p.m. Pacific Time, 9 p.m. Eastern at www.vobs.tv.
Should be a lot of fun.
Okay, so that pretty much wraps things up for current events. We are actually going to get to our main topic, which is VO conferences and industry-related events in a few minutes. But right now, our good friend Heather Masters is going to entertain us all with her VO Meter shtick.
Okay, everybody, it’s time for the VO Meter shtick.
What did he say?
It’s time for the VO… Oh, never mind.
The VO Meter shtick?
Oh, got it.
I’m Heather Masters, and I have, oh, so many embarrassing experiences, but I shall choose one. When I was first starting out and I got my very first live session, I had no idea what to expect, and I’m all on my own up here in Alaska, so pretty much everything that I have learned has been via internet or via long-distance coaching. So I was all on my own and super nervous.
So whenever he called in, I had all my Skype accounts set up just right, which, by the way, I suck at technology, and that was in and of itself a feat for me to learn how to Skype and pretend like I knew what I was doing, which apparently I proved I didn’t because I had the video on. It never occurred to me. I didn’t even know you could turn it off.
And so as we were going in the session, he didn’t have his video camera on. And as we’re going through the session, I’m doing his directions. And there was one part of the section where he kept saying something for me to do, and I just wasn’t getting it.
I think I was just super nervous and I could hear it in my head, but I couldn’t do it with my mouth. And so I kept like having this weird face and making these like idiot, you know, faces because I was frustrated with myself for not getting it. And at one point he said, you know, maybe you should turn your video camera off.
And I laughed awkwardly. Oh, ha ha ha, I know, I make such funny facial expressions. Sorry, I’m really expressive.
Ha ha ha. I didn’t realize he was being serious. And I didn’t know how.
So I just left it on and we continued the session for a couple more minutes and then it ended. And I didn’t realize until later when I talked to some other VOs that you don’t turn your video camera on because you’re a voice and don’t nobody care what you look like. So I emailed him and said, oh, and I’m sorry about the session this morning and about forgetting to turn my camera off.
And then when you mentioned turning my camera off, still forgetting it. It was early on a Monday morning for me and I still hadn’t had my coffee. Smiley face.
Yeah. I don’t think he thought that was very funny. I never heard from him again.
And let’s just say, if I ever see an audition from this studio, I’m all steer clear because I felt really stupid. So, lesson learned, and it’s all part of the journey.
So, yeah, I love that story. Heather actually told us that personally a few weeks ago. Have you ever done anything like that, Sean?
Oh, any large mistakes like that?
With a client on the line, yeah.
So, actually, yeah, I mean, when one of my first coaches, Terry Daniel, like he just suggested just leave, whenever we talked, it would always be audio only, so. Which makes sense, because usually, a lot of us don’t have our computers near our mics, so you couldn’t see us if you wanted to.
Yeah, and actually, I don’t know about you, but when I’m listening to somebody else, I try to critique, I usually close my eyes anyway, because it helps me focus. If I’m seeing their face, it sort of messes with my head, and I can’t give a proper critique.
One of my favorite voice actors, James Arnold Taylor, has this great story. He’s been the voice of Fred Flintstone for almost two decades, but when he went to audition for the part, I mean, this guy, he’s a shorter guy, he’s like five foot five, maybe barely over 100 pounds. They would actually look over him, because they were like, are you sure you’re here for the right audition?
And the original voice of Fred Flintstone was actually listening to his audition. He’s like, will you just shut your eyes and listen to him? He’s the right guy.
And then the casting director did, he’s like, all right, you’re right, we’ll do him, we’ll do him.
See, it helps.
So it’s really interesting, even in an audio medium, how much the visuals can affect us.
Yeah, indeed. So once again, we will get to our main topic of discussion, industry events, in just a moment, but once again, because we just can’t help ourselves, here’s this week’s…
All right, so for this week’s Questionable Gear Purchases, I’m actually doing okay. So, but I do want to talk about that because I was looking at a couple of, I was looking at a new mic, so let me back up a little bit. I have about three mics right now.
I have the Jay-Z J1, which we talked about in an earlier episode. The Sennheiser 416, which is what I’m using right now. It’s a great travel mic and a great, great for a lot of things.
Great for radio imaging, great for promo, great for most commercial work. I know a couple of friends doing animation auditions with it as well. So it’s definitely a good mic to have in the locker if you can afford it.
And then I have my Blue Mouse, which is my fancy, pretty mic. But I was looking at more neutral options for say like e-learning or audiobook work. And so I sat down with some audio engineer friends of mine and be like, do I actually need another mic?
And they’re like, no Sean, you don’t. So it’s really good, like if you don’t know enough about this stuff, it’s always great to get an expert opinion. And who knows, you could save $500, $1,000 on a purchase you didn’t need to make.
Yeah, or even ask friends. One of our colleague, Mike Nordgaard, recently bought a new mic and sent the samples of an A-B test with his existing 416 to us. And my comments were basically, I really think it’s a waste for you to stick with what works.
Yeah, unless you don’t have a backup. Because I mean, these two mics sounded very similar. And…
On mic tests, you mean, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, on his test, exactly. And it was very difficult. There were a couple of parts where we were like, did he, is he messing with us?
Is he switching the samples? So, like, making it harder to guess? But yeah, I mean, if he doesn’t have a backup, he does now, or he can just sell it, and still be fine with the 416.
Yeah, at some point, you reach a point of diminishing returns, where what you have is not going to get any better.
It could, yeah, and you can fall under confirmation bias. You’re like, so you’re like, you wanna justify the purchase, so you’re like, yeah, it sounds great. But what about you, Paul?
Any questionable gear purchases?
Oh, yeah, oh, yeah. So, there was a couple of reasons, or at least rationalizations, that I’d make to myself for this, but I swapped out one mic, the mic I use for audiobooks and long-form narration, because I was looking for something less sensitive, and there was two reasons for that. One, I have problems with mouth clicks, as I think I’ve mentioned, and it helps to have something that’s not as sensitive for long-form.
And then also, I had an author friend who came into the studio, and I recorded her doing audiobook for the first time, where I was the engineer, and she was doing the narration. And she had maybe the worst mouth clicks I’ve ever heard. And in case she’s listening, I’ve told her this in person.
But this was just a normal conversation. So we sat down and we’re sort of talking to the process about how it works and how long it will take, and I said, wow, this is gonna be challenging. So I went out and bought an SM58 by Shure, which is a stage mic used for lots of music and on stage live singers.
And I put it in the booth and it sounds fantastic. It does have some background noise, which is to be expected with a dynamic mic like that.
So when you say background noise, you mean like the self noise in the mic?
It has some self noise, yes. You can definitely hear some self noise in the mic. It’s not the quietest.
But for what I needed, it was absolutely perfect. I put it way up high, almost to the ceiling for the author I was recording, and it almost completely eliminated the mouth noises, just physically. And it was basically a godsend.
And then I use it for myself now for audiobooks, same thing. The less sensitivity really helps. And then I run a little noise reduction on the files, and it sounds great at the end of the day.
And that’s something that I’ve learned. I mean, the more experienced you get with mic technique, you find all sorts of interesting tricks that you can do just with your position in relation to the mic. At first, you might be familiar with say proximity effect, which is where you get really close up onto that mic for that, those intimate reads.
Oh yeah. And then you automatically turn into Barry White or Don LaFontaine. But, but one thing that people don’t try is to actually back off the mic.
Like we, I mean, we have this generic sign. We say, we call it a hang ten, where you extend your thumb and your pinky. And then that helps you dictate about five to six inches away from the mic, which is a good starting point.
But lately, I’ve actually been backing up further, closer to 10 inches away. And say, with the blue mouse, my recordings have gotten a lot clearer. And with the 416 as well, it takes some of the edge off.
Yeah, that actually brings me to my next questionable gear purchase. I went out and bought a Sennheiser 415T, MKH 415T, which is the predecessor to the 416, so to speak. I heard some good recommendations about it.
How it’s like the 416, but less edgy, especially on the top end and a little bit warmer. So I found one at a good price and I just couldn’t resist. So I put it in the booth, I’m talking on it now.
And again, it sounds fantastic. I have to admit, all my… I know I sound like a complete hypocrite based on my last blog post and all my talking about less is more, but my gosh, it’s just like butter.
There are certain products that are worth the high price tag. So it’s unfortunate, but I mean, if you can afford it, then get it.
And one other thing I wanted to mention, because some people, some fans actually have reached out to me about this. Another thing I did was put in a channel strip into my signal chain. And it’s ironic because the very last episode of VOBS before the anniversary one, so basically the day after I bought this thing, George and Dan talked about how channel strips are a complete waste of time, that all they do is introduce extra noise.
And they mentioned the specific model that I had just bought, the DBX 286. There’s an A and S version, I bought the A. But what I’m gonna say is very specific to my situation.
I have highway rumble that I’ve talked about for every episode now. The trucks in the background on the four lane highway just can’t, I can’t block it out with after, with after the fact processing, and…
And you’ve been fighting that problem for like two years now.
Yes, so another friend of the program, Alan Taylor, actually suggested using the channel strip and specifically the 286 by DBX to cut out that noise before it gets into the chain. This particular model has an expander built in and a high pass filter. So I thought a good deal, it was 140 bucks with shipping, got it here and plugged it in, and it does exactly what Alan was suggesting.
I turned on the expander very lightly, so I took some time to adjust it to make sure I had the settings right, and it blocks out that highway rumble along with the high pass filter and allows me to turn the gain up a little bit more on the mic, and with the shotgun, it’s like it’s not even there. So it’s the cleanest signal I’ve had by far. In my particular situation where I needed it, it works well.
But as you can see, this is all evolutionary stuff. So I mean, Paul had a very specific problem, and then this one product offered the solution. You might be fine with just the mic interface combo yourself.
So don’t go running out and buying this DBX just because Paul suggested it.
Right. Somebody contacted me this week. It was actually the gentleman, I’m not sure if he wants me to mention his name, but the same VOBS episode where George and Dan were trashing the DBX, it was because this gentleman sent in a sample to them.
And they said, well, you shouldn’t have the DBX, that’s why it sounds terrible. So he was talking to me about it offline, saying, do you think I should get rid of it? And I said, actually, I just bought one.
So it’s different strokes for different folks, definitely know your situation, and I would say don’t mess with things unless you really know how to set them up.
Speaking of which, because you mentioned having an expander, and that’s something we haven’t really talked about before. I have a general idea of what that is and what that does, but I’d love to hear your description since you’re actually using it.
My description? But what I think it does, and who knows if I’m really accurate, is that it cuts out the dead space between sounds. So it’s basically a gate that will clamp down when the sound is not coming to the mic and then rise back up when the sound is coming into the mic.
Now, one of the reasons I like the channel strip is because it has actual dials. I don’t have to punch in numbers or settings on a plugin. I can just adjust the dials until it sounds good.
And that has helped a lot.
Awesome, very cool. One less questionable gear purchase. So as I mentioned, I have the 416.
And once you get all the big purchases out of the way, I’m a big fan of smaller ones to sort of improve your workflow or to help the things you already have work better. So I picked up two little things for the 416. One of them is this very discreet pop screen or pop filter that goes right onto the barrel of the mic.
So I hate dealing with goosenecks. I know it’s a traditional design and a lot of pop filters use it, but I’ve never liked it. I don’t even like the fact that they scratch up whatever mic stand you put them on.
So I mean, this one’s low profile. It looks cool. It works well.
It’s even portable. It’s great. And then the other one was a shock mount for it, which is also very small and low profile.
It’s actually from Rode, who has partnered with Rycote, who specialize in just making shock mounts. And they’ve got this really interesting, they call it their lyre system. So rather than having, say, rubber bands sort of form this web that wraps around a mic and detaches it from shocks, or like helps it absorb shocks, this actually uses sort of rubble, er, rubble, rubber.
Too many Flintstone references.
Barney Rubble, hey Fred. But anyways, it uses these little, they call them lyres, because they’re sort of like bow shaped, but they’re made out of rubber, they’re still very sturdy and lightweight, and it looks good with the 416. And if I wanted to, I could even use it on a boom pole, or like with a camera rig, or something like that.
So I’m happy with those purchases, and it wasn’t too expensive for both.
Awesome. So I guess the moral of the story is, there can be not so questionable gear purchases as well.
Well, if you put enough thought into them, none of them are.
There you go. All right, so let’s get to the meat and potatoes of the program. We want to talk about events.
So, VO Atlanta just wrapped up, and you and I were both there. Let’s talk about that. First of all, what were your expectations going in, especially as a second timer?
So, as a second timer, that’s a good point. So, my first year, I actually won attendance to come to the conference because Anne Gangusa and Gerald Griffith, the main coordinators of the conference, have this sort of scholarship through Anne Gangusa’s Facebook group, The VO Peeps. At the time, I was living in Japan, so I qualified for their international scholarship, and I won attendance to the conference.
I got a nice travel stipend, and I was able to come, which was great, because at the time, I couldn’t have afforded it otherwise. And I had an amazing time. I was just blown away.
The atmosphere is so electric and positive and encouraging. I met people from all walks of life, at all stages of their career. Everyone had something to offer, and I was surprised with how much people were paying attention to my advice.
And it’s funny, because this year, I’m pretty active on social media, so people are like, oh yeah, I know, I’ve seen all of your posts and your videos. Like, what cartoons are you in? I’m like, not quite at that level yet, but you’re so…
But it’s just so great to be able to connect with people that I’ve followed online for a number of years. And meet them in person and talk shop. It was great.
Awesome. So, as a first timer, I think I mentioned this in the episode leading up to the conference. I didn’t really have any expectations.
I was showing up as a sponge, basically, to absorb as much as I could and see what happens. So, I tried to do that, basically. I showed up and just waited to see what happened.
And that was interesting.
See, that was my plan, too, but then about a week or so before the conference, Cliff Selman, he’s an audio engineer and sort of automotive commercial specialist out of Texas. He and another audio engineer, VO, Dan Friedman, were organizing what’s called the Team Challenge. And this was their fourth one.
I believe the first event didn’t have one. But basically, what happens is you get nine teams who are assigned at random. You have team leaders who decided before the conference, but the teams themselves are decided at random.
And then they’re given a client, and then they have 24 hours to write a script, cast the script using the team members, record it in your hotel room with whatever devices you have available, and then mix it together, and then submit it, and hope for the best. So originally, I wanted to be like Paul and have a very, like, since I was so, since my schedule was so planned out the year before, and I had certain expectations being a scholarship winner, my original plan was to just enjoy the conference like a newbie and absorb everything that comes my way. But the team challenge is quite the time commitment, and it literally took up half of my conference time.
Yeah, I barely saw you. I mean, that was partially my issue, too, but yeah.
And when you did see me, I was usually sweating profusely and quietly saying expletives under my breath.
And holding your knees and rocking back and forth slowly.
Challenge. Exactly. But there is a happy ending to the story.
We did finish relatively early. I mean, yeah, it was half the conference, but there were some people working on theirs into the third day. But even though we were competing with each other and there was some joking jabs at each other’s expense, it was all good fun.
There was no real sense of cutthroat competition. Everyone just wanted to make a good spot. So it was a good event.
And I’m happy to report that my team actually won the challenge. So even though I missed half of this year’s conference, I get to go next year for free.
There are videos out there of Sean’s acceptance speech. You should definitely try and catch it if you can. It was pretty epic.
Oh, wow, I didn’t know that got recorded. And I’m all teary-eyed and emotional because I’m just running on three hours of sleep a night.
And also possibly concussed as you bang your head on the way up the stairs.
Oh, dude, I have pictures. I have this giant bruise on my shin because I was so happy. I was so excited.
First off, I looked like freaking Hugh Jackman because I’m like, yeah, when he’s about to go, Berserker Barrage, but I was just so happy. And first off, I never thought I could do what was required of the challenge before. And then we won first prize.
So it was a wonderful feeling. And so in my rush to get to the stage, I tripped on an audio cable and almost concussed myself on the railing. But thank God my spider-like reflexes saved me at the last minute.
Yeah, that was fantastic.
Oh Lord, thank God that wasn’t on camera.
But congratulations to you and the whole team. I know you worked really hard because I saw, I witnessed it. I actually crashed one of your sessions and ate dinner with your team.
Yeah, yeah. And it was quick because you guys had to go back out and work right away. So it was exciting.
But yeah, speaking of which, I hardly saw you at the conference. And I don’t think you got much of what you expected out of it either.
Well, yeah, speaking about expectations, my experience turned out quite different as well. And that’s because I volunteered to work as part of the conference team, specifically the audio visual team or ABS team. And that involved setting up all the audio and video for each of the presentation rooms and the main room.
So I had to be there on Wednesday and we had a team meeting. And I thought we’d just sort of hang out after that. But no, immediately, we had to take all the equipment.
We had it all stashed in one room, which is basically a staging room where we could inventory all the equipment to make sure we knew what we had and then assign it to each room. And it was the most crazy logistics plan I’ve ever seen. A great job done by Ron Minitry, who was heading up the logistics for that.
And a well-oiled machine. We set up all the equipment in that room and then we moved it to each of the rooms as we could. So the challenge was, and one of the reasons they’re moving next year to a new facility is that we didn’t actually have access to all the rooms, because there was another conference going on.
There was a Sisters of Mercy conference, of all things, in all the rooms, in most of the rooms. And the other half was filled with Chick-fil-A employees doing some sort of corporate retreat.
Oh, I did see that, that’s right.
So we only had access to, I think, one of the rooms the first night. So we put some stuff in there, ran the cables, ran the mics, set up the mixers. But then we had to get up at the Crack of Dawn the next day, and, or sorry, not even, that’s next day, we didn’t have access to the rooms until 11 o’clock.
So basically, as registration was happening, me and my colleagues were running back and forth like crazy people, taking all the equipment to the rooms that we could get access to. And then some, we had to take the equipment and move it to another room once the session was over. So for instance, the one session where Jeffrey Kafer was, once he was done on Thursday, or on Friday, we took that equipment out and ran it to the bar so we could set up karaoke with the same speakers and mixer.
So it was constant movement, constant work. It was not what I was expecting, but it was really interesting to see the conference from that side because there was a lot of fringe benefits involved. First of all, the most obvious is a discount on registration, so when you volunteer for the conference, they have a thing called the Ambassador Program.
And if you go to the website, you can actually register for this now, for next year to apply. You can get a registration for $250, which is half the cost of the registration. And as an ambassador, you only have to commit to eight hours of work during the conference.
And that can be maybe doing registration, maybe doing set up, maybe doing audio visual stuff like I was doing. It might be a room attendant, where you offer water to the presenter, or make sure they have the chair they need. Just eight hours of your time throughout the conference, you can get half off the registration.
So check that out if you’re interested next year. It might be a way to get to the conference that you might not have thought about. So that was one benefit.
And honestly, I could not have gone to the conference without that discount. So that was the one reason I did it. But the other, and I knew this would be the case from my history with other businesses, is that when you’re on the team like that, there’s a lot of behind the scenes contact that you get that really isn’t possible any other way.
So for instance, the first day, within seconds of being there, I was in the room alone with Mary Lynn Wissner and chatting her up. And I met Tom Pinto before anybody else did, same way I was helping him get set up with the microphone and the TVs that he was using to present. So that was cool.
The morning of the keynote speech, Bill Farmer, the voice of Goofy for the last 40 years. He was in the room, and it was me and Uncle Roy and Kerry Donovan, I think, and that was it, and Bill. So we just sat down and started talking about our families, and I was showing him pictures of my kids with Goofy.
So there’s really no way to get that sort of access without being part of the team, and that was really awesome. And I’ll share one story about how that went even further on the way out. I was at the airport on my way out of town, and I walked into the terminal, and there was really no seats at all, except for the one seat next to Tom Pinto.
So he remembered me, I said hi, I asked him if I could sit there, I did. And we had a half an hour conversation about nothing VO related, just about our families. Turns out that his ancestors and mine are from very similar areas in Sicily, and we talked about Italian heritage and all kinds of cool stuff that wasn’t at all related to business, but I got to know him really well personally, and that was awesome.
And that would not have happened if I hadn’t had the chance to meet him one-on-one in the conference room before it started.
And that’s one thing, that’s actually a really good point that I wanna bring up since it’s fresh, is when you go to these events, yeah, we’re all in a similar industry, and many people are happy to talk shop, but a great way to actually build a relationship is to not talk about voiceover, is to ask people questions about their family and what they’re up to. People are usually quite happy to talk about something else, cause that’s their job, that’s their nine to five. So sometimes it’s nice to move away from that.
Yeah, exactly. So just to wrap up the discussion on volunteering, I will say that Gerald Griffith, the organizer, is really about people getting the experience they need. So even though I was on the team, I was able to go to any X sessions I wanted to if I paid for them, and any of the sessions that I wanted to be in that were general breakouts, I could make sure I was in that room.
So for instance, I really wanted to be in Scott Brick’s session because that’s what I wanted to learn about. So I made sure I was running the audio board for Scott Brick. And same thing happened with one of my colleagues, Andrew Bates.
He really wanted to be in the room with Ellie Ray. And he was because we just switched. I was supposed to be in that room and he said, can I be in this one because I really want to be with her for this session?
So we switched. So whatever things I really wanted to see, I could still do that. And Gerald was totally on board with that happening.
And it was really, really gracious of him to set it up that way.
And for people who might not know who these people are, so Ellie Ray Hennessey is this amazing character actress who’s based out of Toronto. And she had this fabulous workshop. I was actually at the one that Andrew wanted to attend.
And as he said, I think that is the first breakout session I’ve ever seen where there was a standing ovation. Like everyone was so moved. She has so much energy and charisma and she’s so physical in her acting that it was very inspiring.
And that’s one of the, like it really encapsulates what these events are about is how inspiring they can be to help you sort of like to push yourself to new heights in your career.
Yeah, I can say that one was really loud because I was next door with Rob Sigampaglia who was kind of quiet and he was constantly getting drowned out by cheers and laughter. I felt bad for him.
Way to get his name right though. We mentioned a few other people. We had Mary Lynn Whistler.
She’s actually a casting director and voice talent herself. I did an X session with her last year at VO Atlanta. So you hear Paul and I mentioning X sessions and breakout sessions.
The breakout session is just a general session that is open to any attendee. It comes with your registration. And these can, even though they’re general sessions, they may not just cater to newbies.
Like Paul was saying before, Gerald does a really good job of offering differentiated experiences based on people’s experience level and their niche of VO and their interests. So, and then the X sessions are basically private workshops. They’re smaller.
Limited amount of attendees can register.
Limited amount of attendees, like maybe 12 or less. And there’s an additional fee. But honestly, if you look up some of these coaches or casting directors or voice talent services, it’s actually usually more cost effective to do it as an X session than a one-on-one.
So that’s a huge added value to the conference itself.
It’s a little less stressful too.
A lot less stressful too.
Because you have camaraderie.
Yeah, yeah.
One thing I want to mention about the X sessions, I was setting up Melissa Exelberth in one of the rooms, and in the middle of the room, she stopped me with all the attendees there and said, hey, I really heard great things about your podcast. I’m gonna start listening and check it out. So thank you, Melissa.
Hopefully you’re listening now. That was a really nice shout out in the middle of a crowded room. Thank you.
Yeah, it was great. She said the same to me afterwards. And she’s a talent at the top of her game.
And so just getting compliments and words of encouragement from her is huge for my fragile ego.
Yeah, me too. So we talked about what the experience was like. What was the biggest thing you learned or from who did you learn the most, you think?
Well, since Ellie Ray is fresh on my mind, probably her. So she taught me two things that were like, first off, she’s very, very physical. And she talks about how very, she’s got this great, sort of a podcast about just different vocal placements.
Vocal placement is just where the air flow is going through your instrument and what kind of sounds that makes. So I mean, you might be familiar with nasal. It’s in your nose.
You’re passing it through. But then you could make it even more complicated character if you push it through your sort of soft palate.
And then you could slow it down, bring it down a little bit and have a really dumb character.
That kind of thing. But yeah, that’s all vocal placement. And if you familiarize yourself with the different areas of it, you can create a pretty healthy stable of characters.
So that was one point. And then another thing that she said is that even though as voice actors, it’s important to practice diaphragmatic breathing, like breathing from the diaphragm, so you can have that resonance and power and stamina to help get you through four hour sessions, recording sessions. But the thing that was really revelatory for me was the fact that she’s like, your emotional core is actually in your chest, which makes sense, because that’s where your heart is.
But she’s like, go ahead and laugh for a second. Like, ha ha ha, ha ha ha. Where is that coming from?
It’s in your chest. And if you’re angry, or if you’re frustrated, or sad, it’s still in the chest, but it’s choked off. And that was huge.
The fact that negative emotion was just like a choking off of positive ones. And so that was really cool. And then she said one other thing that was really motivating for me, because it kind of ties up into another experience I had the week before.
But she just said, if I learn something from an experience, I can never fail. And so as a VO, as a new VO, you’re gonna make mistakes all the time. But if you learn from it, it’s not a failure.
You’re not, it’s not the end of the world. You can move on and improve. So that was pretty huge too.
What about you?
Yeah, I think the thing I learned most was from Rob Sigmung Pogli. And it was all about business acumen and how to protect yourself from possible lawsuits and make sure you’ve done all the proper paperwork. So one of the things he mentioned was that another voice talent is being sued right now for a picture on his website that used to be royalty free and now is being bought up or has been bought up by a company and they filed a lawsuit.
So Rob said there’s this whole new business out there of companies going around and buying behind the scenes pictures that used to be on royalty free sites, securing the rights to them, and then finding where they are on the web and just sending out lawsuits to people and saying, ding, ding, ding.
That’s ridiculous.
Horrible. And Rob said get ready because it’s coming in full force. It’s a whole new business model.
So that was eye opening. And he talked about talent agreements and how important those are, that basically you need to have a talent agreement when you work with a client to protect yourself, not necessarily them, but make sure you know what you’re getting into. So if they come back and try and misuse your voice, then you have that in place.
And the biggest takeaway from the session was that you always own your own voice recordings. So even if you do a recording for an audio book, you own the recording of your voice doing it, and you need to protect yourself accordingly. So make sure no one else uses that without your permission.
So if an audio book publisher, for instance, is using your audition to promote their book, that’s not okay unless you say it is, because that’s your property. So I found that really interesting.
Yeah, and I understand that contracts and actor agreements can be intimidating for many, but Rob actually wrote an entire book about it called Voice Over Legal, and he actually has templates for contracts and certain other agreements that he gives you permission to use. So if you haven’t picked it up, I highly recommend that. And you can find that either at voiceoverlegal.com or voiceoverextra.com.
It’s a big green book. It’s got little judge’s gavel on it, and it’s a fantastic read. So he really breaks it down and gets you to think about all the stuff that we never would otherwise, unless you happen to be a lawyer and on-camera talent like he is.
Right, exactly. All right, so we talked about what we learned and the overall experience. Let’s talk a little bit about actionable steps, things you should do after any conference, really, to make sure you get the most out of it.
So probably the biggest thing is follow up. Because when you go to these events, you’re gonna be meeting a lot of other voice talent and you’re gonna be getting a lot of business cards. So it’s always great to spread those out when you get home, enter everyone into your whatever database you use, at least their name, their email, their website and stuff like that.
And one thing that I feel like I need to remind you and remind people of who go to these events is because you’ll hear people who are on the fence about whether they should go. And usually it’s like, does it lead to any work? How does this help me?
And you really can’t answer that question for someone because there’s no guarantee. And you’re gonna be surrounding yourself with fellow voice talent who don’t necessarily hire voice talent. But still, honestly, I have gotten more work through networking, like this conference and almost any other avenue, just because of the dreaded word exposure.
But this is positive exposure. This puts face to a name. There are talent agents, there are casting directors at these events, and if you build up a positive relationship, it could lead to future work.
I happened, like this last year, I got an agent because they were so impressed with how the team challenge spot turned out. So, you really never know.
I will say, though, you have to make sure that while you’re there, you put yourself out there. You do something that either win the team challenge or put yourself out there as a volunteer, as a team leader, or like I did, be with a conference team, or get involved with any of the activities that are going on there. Maybe it’s just singing karaoke.
Get out there so people see you and you can leave a memorable impression.
And form a positive association.
Yeah, you’ve definitely done that. Everywhere I went, I would mention the podcast and say, do you know Sean Daeley? And everyone would say, oh, of course, we love Sean.
I honestly don’t know how I’ve developed this reputation for myself, but I don’t know. If you’re likable, it helps.
And the other thing about follow-up, I would recommend is to, when you send out an email, or if you’re gonna send even a personal letter, try and talk about something not VO related. Like something, a conversation, hopefully you had a meaningful conversation and you’re not just blasting everybody. That’s the other point I would make, is that don’t just blast everybody at once and say, hey, name, nice to meet you at VO Atlanta.
Hope we can work together sometime soon. Make it personal. And try to reference something that happened at the conference.
For instance, I mentioned Rob. I was talking to him later on that night about baseball, because he mentioned he was a college baseball player and I do a lot of coaching of youth baseball. In fact, I have a draft tomorrow night for my eight-year-old son’s team.
So we spent an hour talking about baseball. So when I sent him a follow-up, I said, it was great talking to you about baseball. That’s a personal connection.
Try and do that instead of saying, hey, it was great seeing you at the conference. What mic do you use?
Yeah, and honestly, it gives some people something to remember you by. So, like, they… Because there were, what, 500 people at the conference this year, and Rob was a presenter, so he was…
Might have been inundated by a numerous people talking to him. So just having something like, hey, we talked about this, or I met you at the bar, and had a great conversation. All of these things really help solidify you in that person’s mind.
And you never know. It might lead to, or they might be happy to refer you for a job that they’re not appropriate for. You know what else works great?
Bringing food, or buying food. I’ll be forever indebted to Fraser for buying me a drink that one night.
Oh yeah, no, he’s a good…
And Uncle Roy made a lot of friends by bringing bagels all the way from New Jersey to hand out to people. He got the joysy bagels. He had a carry-on bag just for bagels.
Hey, when I came from Japan last year, I actually brought bags of Japanese Kit Kats.
Awesome.
Because people may or may not know this, but Kit Kats are really popular in Japan, and they come up with all of these crazy flavors. Some of them are more tame, like strawberry, or strawberry cheesecake, or creme brulee. Some of them get quite original and very Japanese, like sweet potato or wasabi.
Wow, interesting, I didn’t know that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or pumpkin, they have seasonal flavors, they have all of these different things. It’s something like 42 original flavors at one point.
It’s ridiculous. But Uncle Roy still has them from last year because he’s just been rationing them out.
Awesome. All right, so that more or less wraps up the experience at VO Atlanta. I would recommend anyone considering or on the fence to go.
It’s the most fun you can have in a voiceover. I’m just gonna go ahead and say it. That was the big takeaway, is that everybody was so happy to be there.
Just big smiles on their faces, people giving hugs to people that they’ve only known from Facebook and so happy to meet in person. And it’s just a great way to commune with the voiceover industry as a whole.
And it’s a great, it’s a huge motivator because it gives you, you’re increasing your knowledge base, you’re working with your peers, and it’s just so much fun. It’s like everyone leaves exhausted, but really just accomplished, or feeling accomplished and content. And it’s just an amazing feeling.
Indeed. So with that in mind, let’s talk about some of the other industry events that are out there for voiceover that may be of interest to people. And any that you have actually been to?
Let’s see. So there are numerous conferences that crop up throughout the year. I’ve been to Via Atlanta, and we were both at MAVO, or the Mid-Atlantic Voice Over Conference in Herndon, Virginia.
Unfortunately, that won’t be returning until 2018, but there are a few other smaller conferences that crop up throughout the US. I’m actually looking forward to WovoCon, or World Voices Organization, and that’s going to be in Las Vegas in June.
April, actually. It’s coming up, oh wait, sorry, it’s last year. Sorry.
That was last year, yes, that is in June. So I think it’s the 23rd through the 25th. And so really looking forward to that.
This is sort of like, cause VO Atlanta is like an event. Like if you’ve ever been to something like Comic-Con, it has that almost, that similar level of fandom to it.
You’re right about the dates, by the way. Just wanna confirm, 23rd to 25th June 2017. Vegas, baby.
Yeah, yeah, Vegas, baby. And then, it’s a huge event. It’s sort of a formal planned event.
And WovoCon’s a little bit different because it’s much, you got a smaller level of attendees. A lot of the workshops are sort of peer-led. And I haven’t been to it, so I don’t know the exact procedure.
But if you’ve ever been to the events FafCon or FafCamp, these are just people at the top of their game who are willing to just sort of take on a workshop and then share their experience and expertise. Maybe it has to do with their marketing efforts or personal branding or studio help. So it’s really sort of like, it’s not so much like a newbie conference, like not to exclude anyone, but it’s just people who are already established trying to up their game.
Yeah, and FafCon actually, there’s another one coming up, FafCon 9. I think it’s too late to register. You have to, I’ve already been in by invitation only.
But it’s October of 2017.
Yeah, that’s unfortunate, because they’re only going to do a total of 10 of those, and that’s quickly approaching. So I don’t know if I’m gonna get an invite, because I hear, once there’s a wait list of 500 people, and it just, it books so quickly. So, I mean, that just shows the value that people are placing on the event.
Right, and the last one I wanna mention is APAC, the Audio Publishers Association Conference. And that is May 31st, with a pre-event on May 30th in New York City. So that’s specific to audiobooks, but I sat in the session with Amy Roubenet at VO Atlanta, and she raved about this, that basically this is what launched her career, was going to this conference with a concerted marketing effort to get herself out there, and it worked, apparently.
Very cool. Yeah, so once again, that’s APAC, the Audio Publishers Association, and that’s a great way to, like if you’re an audiobook narrator, and say you’ve been doing ACX projects for a while, but want to work with actual publishers, this is a great way to sort of like set up shop and then let people know what you do.
Yeah, and one thing Amy said, another takeaway from VO Atlanta, and it really makes sense for any conference, is don’t go there until you’re ready. Have a fantastic demo, know who you want to talk to, have business cards, be ready before you introduce yourself to a publisher.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Because like I said, we want to make positive associations. So, like you don’t want to be remembered as the guy who is swinging from the chandelier after one too many drinks, you know?
Well, maybe.
Unless you did some really cool back flips afterward.
Yeah, exactly. So that wraps up most of the industry events, at least the ones of which we’re aware. Let’s talk about some sort of ancillary or related events that may be beneficial to your VO career.
You just went to one, right?
Yeah, I actually… So a little about me. I’m a big comic book fan, or geek or whatever.
I’m a big comic book geek. And love superheroes, love cartoons, love comics. So for the last five years, my dad and I have actually been going to Comic-Con together, because he’s a big Trekkie.
And so we can both kind of satisfy our inner nerds. So my dad and I have been going to this event and since about five years ago, there’s been a lot of… There’s been a call to have voice actors as celebrity guests, because they had popular TV and on-camera celebrities coming, but no voice actors.
And so that was a big draw for me. I mean, I’ve gotten more autographs and signed pictures from that event than anything else, but I’ve met all of my voiceover idols. And they’re actually like, just like every one of them we met at VO Atlanta, they are so generous with their time and their expertise, and they are so encouraging of new talent.
Rob Paulson was telling me, so if you don’t know who Rob Paulson is, he was Yakko Warner in Animaniacs, in Warner Brothers Animaniacs. He was Pinky from Pinky in the Brain. He was the original Raphael in the 1980s Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and he’s now the current Donatello in the current Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
So, how often does that happen? Awesome. Yeah, and so when I told him, he was like, you’re doing all the right steps, and he’s like, and at some point, you will have to sort of lead the way for people who come after you.
And then I mentioned our podcast and how we’re trying to do just that, you know? So…
Did he say he’d be a guest?
Why? Oh, that was a perfect opportunity wasted. But, I mean, these things are great because to see people at the top of their game and if you ask the right questions, they are very happy to tell you some golden nuggets.
Because very often you have people who haven’t done their research, you’re just like, how do I get into voice acting? Can you submit me to your agent? And yeah, exactly.
I mean, even us, we’re like, oh no. They don’t… Like, first off, they do not have time to answer that question in a panel.
And there’s no way… Like, everyone’s journey is personal. There’s no right or wrong way about it.
Like, Jim Cummings, the voice of Pete, and Winnie the Pooh for Disney, like, he had all sorts of odd jobs. Like, he worked on a steamboat. He was a drummer in a rock band.
He, like, he helped build floats for Mardi Gras. Like, he worked in a strip joint, like, yeah, you don’t know. Like, who’s to say?
And apparently, it was all, like, it was all relevant skills for him, so.
Well, we actually have a clip of you asking the right question and with the right voice. So, let’s play that now.
I’m Sean, Sean Daeley from Fort Orchard, Washington. And I got two questions for Tress. First one’s a little personal and very important to me.
And believe me, I’ll pass along the word.
No, yes, Donald and Daisy have been engaged for 75 years. And so, it’s nice to have the question popped at home.
It’s a very difficult voice to do, the voice of Donald. I cannot do it. And I was so relieved when I was auditioning for the voice of Daisy, because you don’t hear of Daisy much at all in Disney cartoons until the mid-80s.
And I was so afraid that they were going to want me to be a female, you have to quack, like Tony, because I can no can do, in a very beautiful and feminine way, of course. So anyway, very, very difficult job to do.
So the actual question was, we were talking about this a little bit on Friday, but I’ve been doing professional voice over for about three years now, commercial and narration. How do you transition from that more straight stuff into animation and video game work?
Well, I take any job that they’ll offer me. And I didn’t know, and I didn’t specify. You want me to do an insurance narration, or an industrial, or a trailer, whatever.
It’s House of Tile, Bob’s Law School, all… Todd’s House of Formica. It’s all work, yes.
And you get better and better and better. You just fail up. And it’s practice, you’re being paid to practice.
So it never turned out any kind of a voiceover. I never say no. Yeah, I didn’t get a cartoon for the first 10 years of my career.
Yeah, and then slowly, just kind of, once I got my foot in the door at Hanna-Barbera, yeah, fix that up, I’m good. So, yeah. So gradually it transitioned, which is a very good thing for me, because I prefer the cartoons now, but there was a time when I liked the radio and television commercials better.
So I hope you guys enjoyed that. I mean, I’ve been a fan of Tress McNeil for decades. Honestly, she was like my first voice crush.
Like, I remember watching Rescue Rangers, that show with Chibb and Dale, and a couple of other rodent sidekicks, and she was Gadget on that show, and then she was Babs Bunny on Tiny Tunes. And she’s more than half of the female voices on The Simpsons, so this was just amazing to be able to say, Donald Duck. Or to her, you know, express my feelings like only Donald can.
Yeah, that was really cool.
Yeah, it was very unique. Actually, at my voiceover meetup group in Seattle yesterday, one of the other talents had seen that. So like, oh, did you go to that panel?
I was like, yeah, it was Donald Duck.
And she’s like, that was you?
Awesome.
And then that was televised, who knows? Maybe someone at Disney saw that and was like, we need more people, we need another Donald. So, not keeping my fingers crossed for that one, though.
Or at least, we need Donald in 15 years.
Yeah, we’ll see. Yeah, maybe I gotta work on that one. But yeah, it’s just, like, one of the reasons I love going to these events is that it really kind of reminds me why I wanted to get into voiceover in the first place.
It’s incredibly encouraging and they’re just fun. So, because, like, once again, you see people at the top of their game and you see what kind of skills that you might want to emulate. For example, improv is huge and is a very valuable skill for an animation or character voice actor to have because they might ask you to make a voice for a character on the spot, or they might ask you to supply dialogue.
So it’s very valuable. And so we’re gonna show you one more clip. So starting about a few years ago, they have this thing called Twisted Tunes at Emerald City Comic Con, which is a panel where all of the voice actor guests do a table read of a Star Wars film.
So when they started this five years ago, it was a new hope. So last year they did The Empire Strikes Back, and then this year they’re gonna finish off the original trilogy with Return of the Jedi. So they just go through the screenplay scene by scene.
They assign the actors roles to be read in character. And so it’s always very entertaining.
And not characters from the movie.
Yes, not characters from the movie. So for example, you might have say Dot from Animaniacs playing Luke Skywalker, or Kermit the Frog playing Jabba the Hutt, or Eric Cartman playing Yoda. So it gets really, it’s some hilarious stuff.
And so I thought we’d like to share a little clip from that for you. And I hope you guys enjoy it. Here it is.
This is the Animaniac scene, folks.
As the Emperor, Yakko Warner. As, all right, in this scene, we’re splitting, yeah, okay. Yoda, Whacko, Luke, Dot.
And we are going to have it narrated by Jim, Richard Pryor. What? And Darth Vader, Troy, is gonna be Patrick Warburton.
All right, whenever you are ready, start her up.
The next 12 pages have Luke doing a backflip on a plank. A flying hard solo comically taking out Boba Fett with his dangerous ass and a lot of princess skin being shown, you know what I’m saying? And a ship being destroyed, oh yes, and Luke went to Dango Bar.
Moving on to the Death Star and the Steel Rise, my friend.
The Death Star will be completed on its schedule.
You have done well, Lord Vader. And now, I sense you wish to continue your search for young Skywalker, am I correct?
My goodness, your head is gonna explode, isn’t it? Patent, my friend, in time, he will seek you out. And when he does, you must bring him before me.
Before me, he has grown strong. Only together can we turn him to the dark side of the Force.
Yeah, I’m not gonna ask too many questions about that, but as you wish.
Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen.
When the Emperor get done laughing, we’re finna be in the oldest house, y’all.
All right, so once again, that is from the Emerald City Con. And there’s a lot of those events actually around the country. And one that I wanted to mention, friend of the program and featured in this episode, is Heather Masters, who’s one of the voices in the Five Nights at Freddy’s Sister Location Game, as well as Andy Field, who I just met at VO Atlanta, are both going to be at the Connecticon, which is in Connecticut on July 6th through the 9th.
So check that out if you can.
Very cool. And congratulations, Heather, that’s wonderful. You’ve made it.
Yeah, that’s really awesome.
So yeah, so Comic-Con, you can sort of see the connection because you have animation voice actors coming there. And what was cool is there was another panel of local Seattle talent, like the voice of Gladys from the Portal Games was there. And then a couple, or Gin Hammond, a woman who does a lot of voices for Defense of the Ancients, which is an online multiplayer game.
And then, they were just talking about sort of breaking into the biz. And they actually offer classes through the Seattle Voice Institute, which I’ll be joining this weekend, actually. So for, gonna have a character workshop.
Oh, cool. So I’m really looking forward to that. And those kind of in-person workshops are another great way to get your name in people’s ear and to say, like, hey, this guy’s pretty good.
I got this video game that would be great for him. So moving away from like lesser, maybe less obviously connected events, Seattle also has this thing called PAX, or Penny Arcade Expo, which is a huge gaming conference. So, because we have a lot of indie developers in the Washington area, it’s something like 50, actually, and they all need voices for their games.
So that would be a great way if you could just buy, like buy a booth or a table for yourself and have your business cards out and some of your, or like maybe audio samples of your work playing at your booth and just explain to people what you do. And who knows, the connections you make could lead to future work.
Yeah, and that brings me to the last sort of related events I want to talk about. And it’s something that I’ve done in other businesses is to find the events for the industries with which you want to work that relate to your business. So, for instance, if you’re doing a lot of medical narration, then you may want to join some of the associations that are related to surgeons or the American Urological Association, for example.
A lot of these are based on the East Coast, particularly in Northern Virginia, but they have events all around the country. Or let’s say you want to do work for automotive dealers, then go to your local automotive dealers association and join that, or at the very least, see if you can go to their events and set up a table. And what you can do is, like Sean was saying, set up a booth, maybe offer to do recordings on the spot.
I’m actually doing this with a local networking group where I’m going to go to their event, set up a portable booth, and record messages for them on the spot. And send them out to them so they can have them. And it won’t be the greatest quality, although you never know, depends on what I bring with me.
But they’ll see what I can do and they’ll have that opportunity to contact me for future work. So, networking groups, chambers of commerce are great to look for. They also have events.
Other civic organizations, like the Police Athletic League, the Girl Scouts, the Boy Scouts. Any of those organizations need public service announcements, need phone messages, all the voice work that is out there. Join those organizations and be part of the community and you can get yourself out there as a trusted expert in the voice over field.
I believe it was Voice Talent John Melley. He’s got his own podcast that’s specific for marketing. And he’s got the series of articles where he mentions that he actually went to a dentist or a dental trade show.
And as you might guess, he was the only Voice Talent there and he had a booth set up and he actually made a commercial, like a sample commercial of like dental services. So…
Yeah, that’s what I’m talking about. I plan to do the exact same thing. I thought I created it, but I guess not.
Just great minds think alike.
So, I mean, once again, it’s like it’s just remembering to go to the places where people are hiring, not necessarily, like, I mean, don’t get me wrong. As you probably guessed, we love VO Atlanta, we love Voice Over Conferences. They’re wonderful places.
But there’s no guarantee that you’re gonna get work from that. But if you go to a place where you are the commodity, then, like, your chances are much, much higher.
Yeah, and sometimes you can actually barter the entry fee. So, I tried this time, it didn’t work out. But you may be able to say, if I do this service for all of your attendees, can you comp me the registration fee?
Or the table? A lot of times there’ll be a charge for setting up the table for electric and say, if I provide this service to everyone who walks in the door, how about you comp me the registration? And oftentimes that’ll work out.
So, just thinking outside the box for other events, ways to create business for your voice over business.
Very cool. So that pretty much wraps up this episode of The VO Meter. We hope that we’ve planted the seed for you to think outside the box with some of your marketing efforts, whether it be in person at a trade show, or the people that you reach out to.
Doesn’t always have to be industry or direct industry related stuff. Thanks again so much to our listeners. Thank you to Heather Masters for her great VO Meter shtick.
And thank you to Ann Gangusa and Gerald Griffith over at VO Atlanta for having another amazing conference. It literally gets better and better every year. And I’m really glad that it get to go again next year.
Anyone you want to thank, Paul?
I was gonna thank Ann and Gerald, but you stole it from me. Yeah, I want to also thank Ann Gangusa and Gerald Griffith for having me as part of the team. That was fantastic.
I can’t even explain the effect it’s had on me over the last two weeks. It was really fantastic, and I can’t wait to be back next year.
Awesome. So, this is Sean and Paul for The VO Meter.
Measuring Your Voice Over Progress.
Thanks again.
See you next time.
Thanks for listening to The VO Meter, Measuring Your Voice Over Progress. To follow along, please visit www.vometer.com.

The VO Meter, Measuring Your Voice Over Progress. Hello, everybody, and welcome to Episode 7 of The VO Meter.
Measuring Your Voice Over Progress.
I’m Paul Stefano.
And I’m Sean Daeley.
How are you today, Sean?
I’m okay. I’m getting over a flu or some kind of respiratory bug. My nephew, who’s about a year old now, he and his mom were sick the last time we visited.
Eventually, my dad got sick, and he passed it on to me. And, of course, by upper respiratory, I mean affecting my voice and my chest. So I haven’t really been able to do any serious auditioning in projects for almost two weeks.
It’s pretty frustrating.
Oh, that’s a bummer. I’m actually suffering a bit myself. My youngest son was really sick for a few days, and I picked up a trace of it.
I can’t tell if it’s getting worse or getting better. Either way, it’s not good.
Yeah, you just get that sense that something’s wrong, but you don’t know exactly what. And you’re like, do I need to go to the doctor?
I was in a tough spot because I had two books I was supposed to start, and I put them both off because I don’t want to start a book, an audio book, where my voice is bad. But it’s not bad enough where I’m stopping everything, so I’m doing auditions for commercial stuff and other jobs, but I didn’t want to start a book that’s sounding crappy and then have to come back and redo it.
Absolutely, because like you said, even if your voice didn’t sound bad, it probably won’t sound like you naturally do. So that’s consistency issues right there. So it’s probably wise to put those off until you’re feeling better.
So what’s been going on with you, Voice Over wise?
There have actually been some things. Haven’t just been sitting on my laurels as I recuperate, but I set up a new booth in my house. Yeah, you actually know what it is.
It’s actually my old booth, which was sort of a, to take your phrase, a Franken booth in a way. I actually got a sort of prefab frame, excuse me, I got a prefab material for it from Vocal Booth to Go. It was their hanging acoustic vocal booth, which is originally meant to be suspended by like a strong cable.
That wasn’t very practical for my house. So we just kind of, we went to the hardware store and got some PVC pipe and some connectors and made a frame for it. And now I have two places that I can record.
So depending on who’s out and about and which room is available. So I’m really happy about that. And what about you?
Well, I haven’t done any changes to my booth, shockingly, but I did try and focus on some performance things. I almost said performance issues. Ba-dum-bum, pssh.
Oh, ho-yo.
But I met virtually with Everett Oliver, who you can find at myboothdirector.com. He’s a former studio booth director for auditions for some big studios and agencies. And now has this consulting business where he’ll actually let you meet with him over the phone or video and talk you through an audition.
It’s a great, great service. Well, I should say, it sounds like a great service. So far, I’ve only had the initial consultation.
So what he does is meets with you to talk about just your life in general, where you come from, what sort of training you had, what your goals and dreams are. So he sort of gets a feel for you before he starts giving you directions because it feels like he needs to get to know you before he actually works with you. So I had that first session, and little unexpected, he told me basically I suck.
Oh no.
No, he wasn’t that mean. If you’ve seen any interviews with Everett, he is very upfront.
He’s no nonsense.
Yeah, he’s no nonsense, but he was actually much more diplomatic in person. Well, he asked me, how many acting classes have you taken? And I said, zero.
And he said, all right, you need to take some acting classes. Come back and see me after that, more or less. We talked about how I’m represented by several agencies and I get auditions from them and it’s not going to stop.
And it would be a bad idea to not do the auditions while I was doing some training. So he did say that if I want to work with them on some auditions I get from agencies, definitely dial them up. But priorities should be some additional training.
And I can’t disagree with that at all. I mean, everyone tells you that it’s voice acting, right? We call ourselves voice actors.
So you should really have some acting training.
That’s a really good point because I feel like over the last couple of months, I’ve kind of moved away from regular training sessions, either with like group classes or my own studies, whether it’s just reading voiceover articles or just generic research and stuff like that. But since I’ve been sick, I’m like, well, I can’t voice anything. So I’ve kind of been going back to that.
And like, it is really helpful. It’s very important to kind of gauge your skills where you’re at. And if you need improvement, taking acting classes and where are you taking them actually?
Oh, you’re asking me? Yeah, I actually did take Everett’s advice right away. He said a good place to look is the local community college.
So I did that. I signed up for a class that starts on Valentine’s Day. Hopefully my wife’s not mad that that’s what I’ll be doing in lieu of a dinner date.
But I’m gonna start with the local community college, take an intro to acting class there and see how that goes and maybe do some more. It’s really, really convenient because it’s right up the street for me. It’s a pretty good program for what I understand.
I know that the director works with a friend of mine who’s a stage manager for a local theater troupe and he runs this theater troupe along with the program at the community college. So it should be a pretty good program.
That’s great. And like you said, community classes are a great way to inexpensively learn a skill, whether it be acting or even some of the other areas of voiceover, like the business aspects, like a marketing class or even like a carpentry class if you want to get into building your own booth. So there’s like community colleges are a great resource.
Yeah, I don’t have any affiliation to this particular school, so I’ll just tell you the acting class is 90 bucks, which is fantastic. Can’t beat that.
Yeah, that’s amazing. Like how long does it go? Is it several week course?
It’s, I can’t do math, but it’s January, I mean, February 14th, Valentine’s Day until April like ninth or something. So, Oh, wow. It’s a long class.
A little over two months. Yeah.
Yeah, it should be a good experience.
Wonderful.
And then the other thing I did is signed back up with Sean Pratt on audio book training because I had gotten about a third of the way through his program and then took a hiatus because I was just too busy. And Sean’s great about doing that, rescheduling, adjusting to your needs. So I was able to contact him and squeeze back in on his schedule.
I start back up with him Friday the eighth.
Very cool. Speaking of it, I’ve actually had to postpone some sessions just because of this stupid virus. Because he gives you, depending on where you’re at in your career, you can have a pretty long list of homework.
Because for me, I’m pretty much just a blank slate. I hooked up with him because I wanted to get some demos on my Audible site and to really dive in head first. And since so many of my assignments were performance-based, I had to put them all off because I’m not there.
And it is frustrating because you want to give your best, and if you can’t, you don’t. Or you shouldn’t, I should say.
Yeah, his homework is serious stuff. If you’re doing it right and you actually put the effort in, it can take a while.
They’re enjoyable assignments, though. I was an English major in college, and so it’s a lot of critical analysis of text and stuff like that. And I’m like, I’m in my element.
Yeah, it can be fun, too. Is there anything else going on in your world?
Well, like I said, since I can’t perform so much, I’m trying to figure out other ways to occupy my time. And so I’ve got some new YouTube video ideas in the works. If you follow me on my YouTube channel, I like to do gear reviews and just sort of going over different voiceover equipment and what you might need and what you might not.
Like I mentioned, I built a new booth. And since this is like I’ve gotten a lot of questions about my booth because people really like how it looks and how it sounds. I decided to make a video showing you exactly how I made mine so you can make one exactly like it or make your own custom version.
And so there’s that one. I’ve got a few interface videos coming up. So we have review videos for the Audient ID4, which is a great little single channel interface that’s good for travel or sort of a starter interface.
And then we got what I’m using right now, the SPL CREON, which is sort of this really beefy interface with a lot of inputs and outputs, similar to say the Audient ID22, but it’s got sort of different flavor preamps and it’s got some unique features of its own. So I’m really happy about that. And then since I have so many interfaces of various feature sets and price ranges, I figured I’d do a sort of comparison video.
So people who might be buying a new interface or an interface for the first time can really kind of decide what features they’re actually looking for and what they really need for where they’re at in their career. So that’s pretty much where I’m at.
So that’s actually a good segue into our next segment. We’re going to get very shortly to our Agent Roundtable discussion with our wonderful guests. But first, it’s time to look at this week’s Questionable Gear Purchase.
So I’ll start, and this week or this break in between episodes is a little different. I actually sort of regressed and went backwards in thinking. I got rid of all the mics I have, except for the AT2020 by Audio Technica.
What about the 897?
Yeah, I got rid of that too.
Why?
The reason for it is I was popping it like crazy, and I couldn’t move back far enough in the booth because I work in a really small space. It’s a four-by-four whisper room, and it’s a pretty long mic, and there was just no more room to back up from it, so there was no way to stop the popping, really.
Did you see that one… They had that pop filter from the Hook Studios that you can put right on the barrel of the shotgun, so it doesn’t really add any length.
Well, I was already using a windscreen on it, and I tried some of the generic pop filters I have in front of that, too, and I was still popping it, which almost never happens to me. So I knew it was just the space and the distance between the mic. So what I did was sort of go back to basics.
The AT2020 was the first mic I ever had, and I had the USB version that I was using for audiobooks, and it sounded really good. So I put it up on the standing part of my booth where I had the shotgun, and it still sounded really good. Actually, probably better.
And I’ve gotten compliments over the last year or so from some colleagues who have said, that mic sounds good on you. Probably the best I’ve ever heard you sound. So-
And is that what you’re using right now?
Yeah, that’s what I’m using right now.
It sounds good. Sounds like you.
I agree. So I’m taking it old school. Going back to basics, I’m using both AT2020s, in fact.
One XLR that I’m talking on now, and I’m still using the USB version for audiobooks. And it’s the added benefit of having the same sound for all the work I do. And I can also take the USB version with me if I have to travel.
Just pull it off the stand, have my tablet, my Windows tablet with me, and I’m good to go to record.
Oh, cool.
So that’s the plan.
Because there are numerous versions of, there’s at least three versions of the USB one. Which one did you get?
I have the Plus. So it’s the one with the headphone monitoring.
Okay, that sounds like it’s the best. I mean, headphone monitoring is one that you want, like is a feature that you would like to look for in a lot of USB mics. That just means that you can listen to yourself as you record by plugging your headphones into the mic.
It’s something you can do with any interface mic combo, but not all USB mics have that feature. So it’s a useful one to have, especially if you’re doing audio books and you might need to like do punch and roll or something like that, or you’re being live directed, which I’ve done that in the past with a Blue Yeti, which was a really useful feature to have.
Yeah, so you can use the interface or the converter in there to actually be a phone patch. Is that what you’re saying?
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, it’s a great feature too, you’re right. So yeah, that’s where I am now. If you want to read the whole story, go to my blog, it’s www.paulstefano.com/blog, and I explain the whole method to my madness and how I came about to that decision.
Very cool. I’ll have to check that out, because I mean, it’d be interesting to hear his perspective because I’ve sort of been like handholding him through, or like, no, not handholding, he doesn’t need that, but supporting him through his journey and his constant revolving door of mic lockers.
Yeah, exactly.
That’s great. But I mean, as I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I love that you’re willing to try anything and you don’t sit on your laurels too long before you try something or revisit something, so.
Yeah, that’s my MO for sure.
Mm-hmm.
Me, I’m just lucky that I have four mics that sound good.
So any questionable purchases or actual good purchases this week for you?
I think I lucked out, okay? Because I’ve pretty much gotten all of the big purchases and stuff that I need, and so I focused on things that you might not think about immediately, but could kind of help you out in like whether it be workflow or peace of mind, stuff like that. One thing that I got that I’m really happy about are it’s what’s called a quick release mic adapter.
Yeah, so I got these on the recommendation of James Arnold Taylor. He’s one of my favorite voice actors, an incredible impressionist, and just an amazing energy. And like he plays Johnny Test, and he was Waldorf Sockbat, sort of the SpongeBob character on Drawn Together.
Anyway, he’s got a review video of this mic called the Aston Origin, and in it, he’s talking about these little quick release connectors. There are these two parts. It’s just this little metal column, and one part goes on to any mic stand, and then the other part screws into the bottom of your mic shock mount.
And what it does is that it keeps you from having to constantly screw and unscrew all of your mics from the stands, and then this little two-piece kit allows you to literally just snap on, snap off your mics. So, since I got those, I’ve been switching my mics out a lot more often. I’ve been playing with them a lot instead of just letting them sit in the box.
And speaking of boxes, I actually got a new equipment case from SKB, which is an American company. They make really nice equipment cases. And then I got this one that was designed for six handheld mics.
If you’ve seen like an equipment case for like a live set, you might know what I’m talking about. Usually just like a big black militarized plastic case, nothing special. But these ones are really neat because they have sort of customizable padding.
Oh, so it’s like a gig case or a road case for a band.
That’s why I got it. Because I was tired of like when I switched out mics, they would all have to go back into their individual boxes. And only two out of four of my mics had decent cases that came with them.
Like my Blue Mouse had a nice wooden case, and the 416 has a nice travel case. But my other two mics just had their boxes. But anyways, this thing is designed to hold six handheld dynamics, but you can move the padding around to snugly fit whatever you want, really.
I was able to fit three mics, two shock mounts, and a couple of those quick release connectors, and it fits perfectly. I’m pretty amazed. This would be perfect if you wanted to take, like say, Paul’s small USB mic or a smaller condenser and say like a one or two channel interface.
That would fit perfectly in that, I think. And it’s incredibly well protected. It’s waterproof.
And it was only like 60 bucks because it was a demo unit from Sweetwater. And they’re like, oh, may have light scratches on the surface. I’m like, it’s a travel case.
Of course it’s gonna have scuff marks on it. So yeah, that was a really happy one. And then one last thing, this isn’t necessarily VO related, but that’s what I’m using it for, is this new battery pack from an Indiegogo that I participated in called OmniCharge.
And this is an amazing, like I can’t believe I’m this excited about a battery pack, but it’s, so I mean, I’m sure you’ve seen them anywhere, like those small, like they can be like the size, like either a stick of gum or like a packet of cigarettes or something like that. And it’s just something that came out of the mobile or like the need to constantly charge your devices. But anyways, this one is amazing because it can hold up to, it’s like 20,500 milliamps.
It’s huge and it can power up to four devices. It’s got two USB outs and then two DC outs. It actually has a three prong outlet on it.
So you could plug your laptop into that. And basically you can charge a phone for up to nine hours or a laptop for five. How big is it?
It’s not much larger than your average battery pack, especially considering what the output is.
I have a similar thing that I bought for power failures in my house. This was like 10 years ago. I think it has about the same output, but it’s two suitcases full of lead acid batteries.
Oh my God. No, this thing is tiny. It’s, especially considering the size of certain mini tablets and phones these days, it’s not much larger than those.
The reason I got it is because when we travel, we might need, or like one complaint is, or one workaround is trying to have a good outlet to plug your laptop or even your interface, because certain interfaces like the Audient ID14 or the Apollo Twin or the SPL Crayon or the ID22, they require additional power to ensure like a clean signal in their preamps, because they just don’t get enough reliable power from USB alone. So that completely changed the game for me. Like I can actually travel with my ID14 now, because I don’t need to worry about the power outlet and stuff like that.
And I mean, I can charge my laptop, my phone, and my iPad at the same time. Yeah, it’s amazing. If you want to support them, it’s OmniCharge at indiegogo.com.
I think it’s great. It’s like the last portable battery pack you would ever need. I think it’s amazing.
Little expensive, but if you’re never going to buy another battery pack again, let this be your last one, so.
Awesome. So that wraps up the discussion on this week’s questionable gear purchases.
Or beneficial gear purchases.
Yeah, makes more sense.
At least this time, they’re not always, you know.
And now it’s time to get to the meat of this episode, our Representation Roundtable.
Reptable.
So the topic for today’s episode is representation. Why you might need it, what you do once you get it. Sean and I were talking to some colleagues and figured out there’s a lot of misconceptions out there about what happens once you actually are represented.
Sean and I have both been represented for a couple of months now, closer to a year for me. And we found out that not all is rosy in the land of representation. So we brought in some VO friends that are a little bit further along in their journey to talk about their experiences with their agents and being represented.
Yeah, that’s right. Like Paul was saying, even we had our own misconceptions about the role of an agent in your voiceover career. And it’s just another one of those factors that has changed so dramatically in the industry in the last 10, 15, 20 years.
Because I know when I started, I still assumed that you would go into a third party studio, your agent would find you all of your work, and once you got an agent, you were kind of in, you made it, you know? And nowadays, that simply isn’t the case. And so, we’re going to really explore that, how you can sort of make the agent-talent relationship work for you, and basically, sort of the best practices for approaching an agent and developing good relationships with your agents once you get them.
So, joining us in just a few moments will be Michael Schwalbe, Heather Costa, Moe Rock, and Matthew Curtis. Stay tuned.
So, welcome everybody to the Roundtable Discussion portion of The VO Meter. Sean and I are going to be joined in just a second by some fabulous guests. We want to recap the reason we’re doing this.
So, as you know, the VO Meter’s thrust is to help people who are just starting out. And one of those questions people often ask is, when do I get an agent? How do I get an agent?
What can an agent do for me? So, that’s what we’re going to talk about in just a second. But first, I want to introduce our fabulous guests.
Let’s start with Moe, if we could, please.
Hello, I’m Moe Rock. I’ve been in voiceover for over 20 years, to age myself. I have a degree in theater with an acting concentration.
And I’ve been full time a little over five years. And I specialize in commercial character and narration.
Fabulous, welcome. And how about Matthew?
Hi, I’m Matthew. I’m a voice artist. So I’ve actually been doing performing about all my life, voiceover often on ever since I was about 10.
And then really started taking it seriously about three years ago. And about full time now, except for that I have two children. So I have to work a part time job just to feed those mouths.
But hopefully by the end of the year to be actually going full time. So also play Drop Zone. If anyone’s out there and plays video games, play Drop Zone.
Awesome. Welcome, Matthew.
We’re all about the shameless self promotion. It’s okay, Matt. So up next we have Michael, Michael Schwalbe.
I hope I said that right.
You did say that right. Thank you, Sean. My name is Michael Schwalbe.
I’m a full time voice actor based in Nashville, Tennessee. Been full time a little over three years now. Went to school for music business, found out that the music business sucks now.
So I’ve been doing this ever since and making a lot more money. As far as my work, I do a lot of commercial work. I do a lot of video game and animation work.
And yeah, that’s me.
Very cool. And our final guest for the afternoon, Miss Heather Costa. How are you doing, Heather?
I’m good. How are you?
Great. Tell us about yourself.
I’m a New York voice actor, and I just moved to LA with my family about a month ago. And very, very excited, settling in slowly. I’ve been voicing since 2004.
I do a lot of commercial, animation, video game, audiobook, a lot of corporate stuff, kind of the gamut of VO. And I have two little kids also, so the juggling of the VO and not. But sometimes I just come in my booth for some quiet and sometimes to work, you know.
That artistic relief.
Well, great. Welcome, everybody. Once again, thank you for joining us.
I think it’s going to be a great discussion. Sean, I believe you want to start with the first question, so fire away.
Yeah, let’s keep it simple. When did you get your first agent? About how long into your voiceover career did you have it?
So anyone, you’re welcome to answer.
This is Heather. I got my first agent, I was probably already in VO for about six years. And I think it’s just because I wasn’t really marketing myself to agents before that.
And she was a small time agent, but she was wonderful, like a small market, like, you know, not a big time agent, but she did exactly what I needed her to do. And she sent me out often for auditions, and she was great.
That’s wonderful. And what were you doing before that?
I was just doing marketing on my own. I built up my clientele just marketing without agents.
And that was like contacting production houses directly?
Yes, yes. Production houses had agencies.
Yeah, and feel free to get as specific as you like, guys, because we’re trying to help people who really don’t know where to look for voice over opportunities. So like maybe they’ve just finished their coaching, they’ve got some demos out, and they don’t know what to do. So some people might take the direct to agent route and other people might be wanting to do what you did and kind of be more independent and contact the client directly.
I think both are very valuable. And at this point in my career, I have a bunch of really great regional agents as well as direct marketing that I do.
How many agents do you have, if you don’t mind?
About seven? Seven, yes.
Anybody else who wants to share their experience about when they first looked for an agent or how they landed with their first agent?
I’ll go. This is Moe Rock. And my path has been probably a little different than most people’s.
Like I said, once I graduated college and they didn’t teach us much voiceover in college, so I started pursuing that outside. I got an agent pretty darn quickly at that, but she was, even though it was Seattle, she was kind of one of the smaller non-union agents. And then I went off on other paths and then ended up coming back to voiceover, did a little bit here and there, and then more and more and more, and then when I went full time is when I picked up my next agent.
So I had like a big long period of like 15 years or so in between. And when I picked up that first agent, I actually, it was kind of a mutual friend. Let me introduce you to this person.
But I didn’t really pursue other agents until I felt like I was at the level. Because you don’t want to give a bad impression. You don’t want them to remember you for not quality work.
So you’ve got to be really careful about when you start pursuing agents, when you have that quality demo, when you have a really good website, when you’re going to come off as incredibly professional. Otherwise, you might leave a bad taste in their mouth. They might see your name and never ever listen to your demo again, even though you’ve improved.
So it’s really important to like get that level down. And now I have like 10 agents. But I waited until like several demos down the line before I really was like, okay, now I’m banging.
Now I can really go out there and get them.
Fantastic. Thank you. And Matt or Mike, do you guys want to chime in?
Sure, I can chime in. I didn’t really put a big emphasis on finding an agent for quite a while. I’m a big aficionado of the Doug Turkell school of thought, which is, don’t be the kind of talent that needs an agent.
Be the kind of talent an agent needs. Oh, I like that. So I set about more on trying to build my career.
And like Moe said, get all my ducks in a row. Be as professional as possible. Even from the very beginning, I never did the free or low-pay work to get into VO.
I went whole hog right away, got all my demos done, all my stuff put together, and then just said I was a professional. And my very first voice over client ever was the National Museum of the US Army and doing voices for their exhibits. So I think that there’s a lot of value to that, to just always presenting yourself as professionally as possible.
And so my first agent, I got in December of last year, maybe. And then I… So I had four then by April, because I was like, I want agents, so then I just started shopping around.
We’re talking about snowballing, man.
I ditched one of them already, because it was a bad fit, we’ll call it that. And so I’m kind of actively now looking, because I’ve booked a few pretty sizable jobs lately, and I’m trying to use that as momentum to then get some serious LA representation, and I’m working on that now.
Fantastic. Well, congratulations on all your hard work.
Sorry, Sean, let me ask Matthew a question so he doesn’t have a chance to speak. One of the things we wanted to bring up, and really the reason Sean and I came up with this topic, is because we found that for both ourselves and some other talent that we’ve spoken to, once you get an agent, you may not book right away, or it might take quite a few months to actually book a job with an agent. Matthew, did you find that once you were represented, you booked right away, or how did that process pan out for you?
Well, mine’s a bit different because… While I’ve been doing VO often on all my life, and then really started pursuing about three years ago, I was actually working with a local agent doing film and musicals and all different stuff, and VO on the side. Then when I decided that I really just wanted to pursue VO, and the other stuff is the side, they really didn’t want me to do that, and so we kind of had a falling out, and I don’t have them anymore.
It was last year that I started getting some other agents, and I have booked one or two things through them, but don’t expect to book stuff right away. Like, having an agent isn’t the be-all-end-all to booking, because if you also think about it, they’re going to be sending you stuff off of voicebank.net, which every agent is going to be sending every one of their talents as well. So, you’re still competing with a whole lot of people.
And generally, there’s always someone better, unless you have something that they really, really want.
Does anyone else have a comment on that, about when you feel like you should be booking once you’re represented, or is there a time to hit the panic button and say, all right, now it’s been too long?
Well, it kind of depends on the agency. Because, like Matthew said, a lot of agents… I have some regional agents that I don’t really even hear from, unless it’s a voice bank audition.
Because they’re maybe mostly modeling or on camera or some other kind of talent agency that just so happens to also get voice bank stuff and kind of send that out as it comes. So for something like that, you might be up against 900 people for a voice bank audition. One of my agents informed me that I was shortlisted for a radio campaign, said I was in the top 15 out of more than 900 applicants.
So if you think that agencies are going to lessen your competition or that have fewer people you’re competing against, you’re mistaken. And even if it is just your one agency, the reality is that there might be a couple other people that are very similar in sound to you, but unlike maybe on voices.com or a Pay2Play site, those other people are also at the top of their game because they’re on an agency. So whereas maybe you’re 5% less good than somebody else, but you’ve got the more right voice for that spot on an agency roster, everybody is that good.
And so there’s just a lot less room for not being the best. I don’t know. That wasn’t what I meant, but it can take a while.
Yeah, I think you’re making a fantastic point, Michael. And a lot of people might think that, like we were talking about before, once you get an agent, you’ve made it. And it really just opens up a completely new level of competition and challenge.
And another thing that people might not consider is that when you get started with an agent, they don’t know what your strengths are. There’s a learning period. Basically, the only feedback I’ve gotten from my agents is that I’m getting a lot more lucrative auditions, for one thing, which is nice, but ones that are a lot more in-caping with my wheelhouse, with my tonal character, things like that.
So eventually, it takes some time to build that relationship and get a more personalized one with your agency.
And I promise I’m not going to monopolize this call, but something else that just occurred to me is that when you said you’re on a different level of competition, it’s also a different… it can be a different sound. Like, say you’re booking a lot on, you know, voices, other casting sites, the work that you’re finding on your own, and you’re primarily doing, you know, maybe small corporate videos, local TV or radio spots.
National spots sound a lot different. They, like, the trends move much more quickly in what the people are looking for. So you might be booking well on kind of the local sound or like a more typical classic commercial read, but a big brand doesn’t want a classic commercial read.
They want something that’s like on the cut edge. So you might be reading for spots like a year like behind what you should be in terms of how kind of forward thinking your reads are. So you might just not be reading the style they want either.
And you can also get not selected, not booked, for reasons that are completely out of your control. I mean, I made top five for a national recently, and I didn’t get it, but it could have been my voice. One person thought I sounded like someone they don’t like.
It could be something as simple like that. They also were really wanting people in New York City or in LA. I can’t remember.
And so I have ISDN. I have Source Connect. I have everything they need, but maybe they selected someone who was actually in LA.
There’s variables that you’re not even considering. It doesn’t mean don’t get better, but there are variables that you’re not considering, too.
Moe, do you try using the tagline imported from Lancaster County?
I’ll just pretend to be Amish.
So speaking about marketing, it’s a bring us to our next question. Heather, are you still with us? I wanted to ask you, you talked about doing a lot of your own personal marketing.
What can you do to market yourself to your agents to improve your bookability?
Well, when I land… You mean the agents that you already have? Yeah.
So when I land a big spot, I will email them individually. Hey, I just wanted to let you know I just booked this, or I think this would be a good… This was really in my wheelhouse.
So it’s kind of engaging with them. Also, I find that when I’m booking out and then I book back in, it also engages conversation and kind of puts me back on their radar. Sometimes if it’s a really big audition, I will ask them for feedback and say, hey, do you think this is what they’re looking for, or is there anything that I can tweak?
Because you have to remember they’re on your side. They want you to succeed as much as you do. And then it also depends on the agent.
Some agents all get a lot of stuff, and others I will get really specific, you and a few others are being considered for this. And you really want to bring your best foot forward for that. So it really depends on the agent.
Very nice. And so that brings on to a similar topic. How often do you guys communicate directly with your agents?
What do you feel is sort of like the happy medium between pestering and just being completely scarce?
Well, to piggyback on what I was saying, I also try to send a newsletter quarterly. So between that and then between… I don’t think I necessarily think of having to do it a certain amount of time when I have something to share with them or if it’s like I’m sending stuff out now, hey, happy belated new year.
Because the rush of everything already passed. And if I’ve realized, hey, I haven’t directly contacted them and it’s been a month or so, maybe I should shoot them an email or whatever it is. Because sometimes I get responses just when I submit auditions.
It depends on, again, the agent.
Has anybody ever been reprimanded by their agent saying, hey, don’t put that out there because I wanted to or let me handle that for you?
When I first got started, yes. I didn’t realize that it was something I booked through the agent and then the client contacted me directly and then I started having a discussion with the client. And the agent was like, you may not realize, you may not know this, but the correspondence between the client should always go through the agent.
So now if a repeat client contacts me directly, but I booked it through an agent, I will say, you know, thanks so much. Would love to work with you. I’m available today.
But can you contact so-and-so to get it set up?
That’s a great point.
So I learned.
Well, and your agent will appreciate that because then it tells them that you’re not interested in like scalping the job off them and that they’re worth the commission or whatever. I think this isn’t exactly being reprimanded, but I had an agent that just always sounded annoyed if I called them. And then that culminated in getting booked for a job that then the client really took advantage of me in the session and like gave me twice as many scripts as I’ve been booked for.
And I was like assuming the agent had my back and then I didn’t get paid for any of it and the agent didn’t tell them no. And so then when I was calling them about it, they sounded like I was bothering them. And so then I was like, you know, no, because like we said, they’re on your side, they’ve got your back, or they should, if they don’t, or if you feel like they are being pestered when you’re calling them, ditch them, because there are other agents out there that won’t treat you like that.
You don’t need them. You are the reason they have a job. So yeah, so I didn’t put up with it.
I just said, you know, I don’t think you’re representing my interests any longer and I’m not interested in being a part of this agency.
When is the time to look for a new agent or expand your roster of agents?
I’m looking right now, like I said. I think once you maybe, because there’s a couple levels kind of of agents, you know, the regional talent agents are like maybe a managerial style of an agent or major market representation in LA. So once you book, you’ve got to got a window.
You’ve kind of got this, like if you book a national campaign, like I did some spots for Wendy’s and I’m narrating a TV show right now. And so then that was like, oh, this is my window. I’ve got like two really pretty serious things like right now.
So I need to start pushing. And then I was like, except my demos are not, well, they really are not LA ready. So then that was like, oh crap.
So I’ve got to wait for the next window.
But I probably still want to grab that window.
Oh, I mean, trust me, I did. But when they said no, that was when I was like, oh.
Okay, well, that makes sense. I think as you grow, I think you will you pick up agents a lot easier for one when your materials are of a certain quality. And it’s just when you’re ready, you know, I mean, for the longest time, I just had one because I felt like that was all I needed.
And then, you know, when I felt like, you know, my website and my demos and everything was, all my ducks were lined up really nice and proper. Then I went on mass pursuits, you know, I mean, that was my, my task was to pick up agents. And, you know, and then you kind of go, okay, well, I have one in the Northeast and I have one in the South and I have one in LA and I have one in New York.
And, you know, and you kind of do your territory. And then now I’m kind of good. I have some in Europe, I have some in the US.
I feel comfortable with where I’m at unless I see an agency that peaks up that, that is a territory that I don’t cover. I also do, like, character work, so I just picked up an agency that specializes in toys. So that is an avenue that I was pursuing.
Perhaps a bigger agency in LA or New York, if you’re at that level. But if you’re just starting out, you know, it’s kind of as you can get them.
I’ve got a question for Moe. How much, because I think you said you have seven agents or something like that or ten?
I have ten.
How much overlap? Because I was starting to get like triple overlap, even when I had four. And so, and I talked to some people that were like, I wouldn’t have more than six.
So how much overlap are you getting? Or do you really do your homework on like, oh, they do this one type of genre. So I don’t have to worry about like getting overlap in other industries.
Several of them kind of came on all at once. Like I said, I tried to do a mass so I could go, okay, well, if I get two offers from the same area, I can be selective. But sometimes I did.
So every once in a while, yeah, the voice bank auditions, I will get overlap. I mean, I give priority to either the first who sends it to me or my bigger agent, whoever I think is going to have more pull for me. I will break that first come first serve rule.
But yeah, the voice bank auditions, but I’m finding lately I’m not getting a lot of overlap. I’m getting, you know, I try to find agencies that are maybe small town, regional, and they have gigs that are well-paying that are not with other agencies. And that is a fabulous thing to find.
Get on these small agencies. I shouldn’t give out my secrets, but that’s a great way to pick up gigs. And maybe they’re not the biggest names.
Maybe they are. But it’s a great way to pick up different gigs through your agencies and not have the overlap and not just be getting voice bank.
Is there a number that’s too many? Too many agents? Anyone?
I don’t know what that number is, but I would say yeah, probably.
Well, it’s like we were talking about before. We have two examples where one has more than a handful of agents and there’s no overlap, and the other one has less, and there is. So I guess it really just depends on where the agency is, like where it is and what kind of work they do.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, and I’ve dropped agencies over the years and picked up different ones.
Also, on that note, I think that once you get to a certain point or number of agents, some are bigger time and some are smaller, and they may give you a lot of great opportunities, but you don’t necessarily have to showcase all of them on your website. Maybe pick your top four. Exactly, yeah.
So your local one, the bigger markets. And even though the smaller ones may be giving you tons of great opportunities, either they’re not going to care or, you know, having too many on your website, then it doesn’t necessarily look good for you.
I would agree with that. There are agencies also out there that will say you’re only allowed to have three or four.
Right.
They say you can only be with us if you only have. And I think that number is three, four?
And then some are exclusive for their area? Yep.
A lot are.
And others don’t care?
So this is a little bit off book, but it made me think about what Heather was talking. Are there any other warning signs that a newer talent should know about when they’re being approached by an agent? Things that they should avoid?
Things in a contract that they should be really weary about?
Annual subscriptions.
Don’t pay them other than commission and maybe a one-time web fee to help you get up on their site. Some agents will charge that, but you shouldn’t be paying annually.
Yeah, and schooling. If they’re pushing, hey, we teach this class, blah, blah, blah. Hey, we can get you pictures or headshots or demos.
Yeah, it’s probably a bad sign.
And also the amount of the percentage that they take. If it’s more than 20, just say no. And even 20 is too much, in my opinion.
I had one, and spoiler, it was the one I left. So 15% for non-union is pretty normal, 10% for union. But if they’re taking 20, be wary, because there are other agents that don’t, and then 25 or more, just flip them the bird and don’t even respond.
I see 20 a lot, so I don’t know if I necessarily agree with that. I don’t know if I’d agree with that. But I wouldn’t say that 25 is too much, and you also do need to be aware that sometimes 20 actually means 40.
If you see an audition that says 20 plus 20% agency fee, so you think, awesome, the client’s paying the agent, I get all of that money? They’re going to take that 20, and then they’re going to take another 20 from your money. Not all agents do it, but some do, so be aware.
Another thing to be wary of is if you are brand new, and even if you have a killer demo, but you have no experience yet, and the agents are interested in you, just make sure it’s for the right reasons, because usually agents are not going to be interested until you can prove that you can do the work. Just because you have a great sound doesn’t mean you’re going to be bookable for them. So if they’re interested too soon, just make sure that they are a reputable agent.
And if they are, great, congratulations.
Yeah, good point.
Yeah, if they’re interested in you and you don’t have a serious referral that’s vouching for you or something, or just amazing demos or something that really puts you above, yeah, I think there’s a good chance they’re actually trying to get something from you or to take advantage of you.
So, since we’re already scared of agents now, that leads on to our next question.
No, I’m kidding, but it really does… it is relevant to what I’m going to say next. Do we even need an agent for a healthy VO career?
Because I think you guys have all proved it that you don’t to some degree, but you also benefit from having an agent. So, what do you guys feel? Does a talent really need one if they don’t want one?
I think a lot of people have proven that you don’t really need one to succeed. I mean, you look at like Mark Scott, who is a very prominent VO, great blog, got a lot of good coaching stuff, and he says he worked for three years before he had an agent. And by then, he was making his legendary six figures that you can make in this business.
So, I don’t think you necessarily need an agent to succeed. I think it helps if you find a good agent who will work with you and will know your voice in and out and will send you things that you’re right for. It’s a legendary agent that I have yet to meet.
But then again, I haven’t been with my agents that long for them to get to know my voice or to get to know me. And, you know, half the stuff I do, they can’t really send stuff out for right now because of a certain strike that’s going on.
Yeah, yeah. Well, and I think need… the word need has a connotation that’s not quite appropriate.
I mean, it’s sort of the icing on the cake. Or you could say need if you want to take your career to that level. I mean, you’re never going to get union auditions without an agent.
So if you want to go union and you want big nationals and high-paying jobs, then yes, you do need an agent. If you are happy doing non-union work and you don’t care about nationals and you just want to do corporate videos and local commercials and you can still make a six-figure income doing that, then no, you don’t need an agent. It depends on where you want to go.
I was making a healthy five-figure income before I had any agents, so you certainly can. And I will say, depending on where you live, I got my first couple of union jobs before I had an agent. And it was because I knew some casting directors and some production houses here in Nashville that regularly did union work, and I just kind of got on the radar and got to build a relationship with them.
So I wasn’t represented, but they knew me. But I will say, like, 98% of the time, that’s not the case. But yeah, you can live without them.
And really, having one isn’t going to change your life, probably, unless you’re in LA or something. But it’s not like… You’re not going to suddenly hit the big time once you get an agent.
You’ll just do a lot more auditions.
Hopefully.
Over and over. You know, it’s just another… more people out there.
I mean, I am very fortunate to be successful in my own marketing, but I’m constantly getting opportunities from agents that I never would have seen without them. So, I do think that agents are wonderful, but I shouldn’t… I think you shouldn’t rely on them solely, but I think that you should, when you get to a certain point, try to get them as well, because they’ll only help your career.
So, along those lines, is it still a benchmark? Because I know, starting out, and I was obviously a misnomer, but my thought was, once I get an agent, then I’ll be all set. I tried to spell that myth on this call, but is it still a benchmark of some sort as to your career progress?
Honestly, I think it depends on the agency, because there’s a lot of agencies out there that are grabbing up as much voice talent as they can get, because they want to have so much that they can send to these voice bank auditions that hopefully, by playing the law of averages, they’ll get more people shortlisted or cast. They’re just starting off… There’s a bunch of new agencies, and they don’t really have a regular list of clients yet that they work exclusively for and say, we have these exclusive voices for you.
When I first got was looking for an agent, I thought that would be the big benchmark, but I didn’t get one for a while after I left my local one, and I was doing fine. Then once I did book an agent, it didn’t really change anything. I did book some things with them, but there was just all the voice bank stuff, which actually put me, when I was thinking about it, when I was like, well, maybe I don’t really want to be with this agent anymore because they don’t really send anything that suits me.
It’s obvious they don’t really know me because I get this blank sheet which says, you know, 60 to 70 year old. I’m like, that’s not my voice. This is my voice.
I’m not 70. That’s probably also a sign of an agent that you don’t want to be with. It’s one that doesn’t really take the time to look at which people are appropriate for which audition.
You think if they’re just sending it out to all their male talent, you have to think, well, maybe I don’t want to be with this agent.
Well, to piggyback on that, I have one agent that when I signed with him, he said, I’m not going to not send you something if it’s… I’m not going to send you an old man spot. Basically, he didn’t want to decide that I couldn’t do something.
So, you know, sometimes I get things from him where I’m like, you know what, I am going to push it. And then it turns out to be something that I wouldn’t necessarily have been cast for, but it ends up being a great fit. So it depends on how you look at it.
I think if all my agents did that, it wouldn’t be good.
And the fact that he brought that up to you, I think, is…
That’s the difference, yeah.
I have one agent that does send me everything that comes through her door, and I prefer that just because I have some other agents that I almost never hear from, but I know they’re getting work, and they’re getting auditions. And so it’s like, well, how do I convince them that I’m a good fit for some of these jobs? Because I’m sure some of them I am.
And so I prefer getting everything, and I’ve been called a vocal chameleon, so I feel like I’ve got a pretty wide range that I don’t want an agent deciding what I can’t do, so I agree with Heather.
Okay, great. To close, let’s talk about one hot tip you would give a newer talent who’s either looking to be with an agent or create a relationship with their existing agent. Anyone that wants to start?
I’ll start, and that’s continue to study. Find coaches, get to know your voice over community, and just continue to study. And hey, maybe you’ve got a really cool voice over.
Maurice Tobias, you’re taking a Maurice Tobias class, let’s say. Well, maybe that’s something that you could say, hey, by the way, I’m studying with Maurice Tobias. You know, put that in your newsletter or a hello email.
I just think it’s so important to continue to study forever, as long as you kind of want to continue to do this. So it’s a chance. Any chance you have to reach out to your agent and not be needy or wanting, like, why can’t I get any jobs?
Why aren’t you sending, you know… Something to say, hey, this is what I’m doing. You know, maybe they’ll feel like, oh, well, I’m doing this, you know.
Reciprocate.
Anybody else?
I would say to really nurture the relationships with your agents. You know, get to know who they are as people and genuinely care about them. And it’s not just, you know, hey, this is what I’ve done, but this is what’s going on in my life.
And how are you and what’s going on in yours? And it’s just relationships are so important in this industry and I think especially with your agents.
I guess I’ve got two quick ones. One is just to reiterate what I said earlier, which is don’t be the type of talent that needs an agent. Be the type of talent an agent needs.
If you focus on building yourself, building your relationships, getting the connections, you’ll be much more valuable and desirable by those agents and they’ll want to shop you around more than if you’re dependent on them for your success. So that’s tip one. Tip two is treat everybody as if they’re worth your time because a lot of the time they actually are.
And much more often than you think they will be. Like the TV show is… I’m working for that show because of a part-time voice actress that I met at a meetup here in Nashville that just so happened to do the finance for their production house too.
Nice, fine.
And so they needed a narrator and she recommended me. It wasn’t an agent. And I know some actors that didn’t even go to the meetup because they thought, oh, they’re all small time.
Like, I won’t get anything out of it. You never know. So be nice to everybody.
Thank you. Well, I want to thank everybody for joining us today. I think we had a great discussion.
Hopefully it will be helpful to our audience. Before we go, free plug time. Let’s go around the room.
Anything? Tell us where we can find you or where we can see your work. Matthew, go.
Okay, let’s see. Most recently, I actually did work for a local company here in Baltimore called Sparky Pants Studios. They’ve just yesterday released on for Steam Early Access Drop Zone.
And funny thing about that job is actually from just a marketing standpoint, they just… I followed them on Twitter. They followed me back.
I said, thank you. And they said, oh, you’re a voice talent. You know, hey, do you want to…
We’re actually looking for people around this area. And I said, okay. And then so I booked a narration job with them, which you can also see on Steam and on YouTube.
And then in that session, the president who I was talking with was just like, hey, we need a character in the video game. And you know, your voice is great. Can we just go ahead and take care of that now?
So I booked two jobs in one sitting. And so if you actually play the infestation mode on Drop Zone, that’s me shouting going, oh, of course, in the morning. I love the smell of chorus in the morning and stuff like that.
And there’s some other stuff, hopefully, in the works, maybe for the next couple of years animation wise, but we’ll see. So anyways, keep fingers crossed.
Best of luck to you. Thank you, man.
Thanks.
That’s great.
Michael, this is because you’re next to my list in the window.
Sure. Shameless plugs. You can find me and my past work and demo reels at whatheesaidvoiceovers.com.
You can hear me on Long Range Reality, on the Sportsman channel. I am a green mouth monkey on some Wendy’s commercials. And you can play some games on Steam with me in a game called Eternal, a game called Neelo, and a bunch of other stuff.
That’s enough.
Awesome. Moe Rock.
Let’s see. Well, you can hear all my demos and find about me and my website, moerock.com. Moe with an E, just like the great Mollerian Curly.
Let’s see. I’m on lots of video games, including Dungeons & Dragons, Neverwinter, all over that game. Got a new game just came out, Skylab.
And I’m on an animation series in Ireland. It’s kind of fun. Commercials, Visa, Dunkin Donuts, Walmart, did some stuff for them.
That’s about all I got going on right now.
Okay, Heather Costa.
You can find my stuff on heathercosta.com. I’m now in LA Talent. And I have a national radio spot for McDonald’s airing right now.
And some spots for Subway, lots of stuff on Pandora. I’m doing a series of audio books for young girls, which is really fun. And some other stuff, Coca-Cola, Nordstrom, just different things here and there.
Lots of corporate things as well. So, yeah, it’s basically what I’m up to.
Okay, we’ll have half of the VO Meter. Sean and myself, thank you very much. Sean, any parting shots?
Well, I just can’t thank you guys enough. I mean, the whole point of this was to dispel some myths about just how vital an agent may or may not be to your business and whether or not it can make or break you. And you guys just blew it right out of the water.
I mean, I’ve learned so much, and I hope our listeners… Well, I know our listeners are going to benefit from it, so thank you so much.
Thanks for having us, you guys. That’s great.
It’s been a pleasure.
Let’s do it again.
That was awesome.
Thanks again, everybody.
Thank you.
Thank you, everybody.
So, that about wraps up this episode of The VO Meter.
Measuring Your Voice Over Progress.
We want to give a special thanks to our guests, Michael Schwalbe and Matthew Curtis.
And the extremely lovely and talented Moe Rock and Heather Costa. So, thanks again to our wonderful guests. And if you have any questions or comments for us or them, go ahead and leave a comment in the Facebook section below.
If you have questions or ideas or want to be a guest on a future episode, just let us know. Have a great day, everyone. Hope you enjoy the podcast.
And follow along at www.vometer.com. Take care, everybody.
Thanks for listening to The VO Meter, Measuring Your Voice Over Progress. To follow along, please visit www.vometer.com.

The VO Meter, Measuring Your Voice Over Progress.
Hello everybody, and welcome to Episode 6 of The VO Meter.
Measuring Your Voice Over Progress.
Once again, I’m Paul Stefano, and joining me as always is co-host Sean Daeley. How you doing, Sean?
I’m doing great. How are you, Paul?
I am great. Just coming down from the holiday blissfulness of spending all the time with my family and friends and getting started with the new year.
Did you do anything special, or did you keep it pretty low-key this year?
We were lucky in that, well, when you’re parents and you don’t have to travel with kids, it’s always considered lucky to not have to travel. So we stayed home, my parents came to me, and we celebrated just at home and actually stayed home the whole week I was off and didn’t do any work the whole week.
That’s awesome.
Great time.
Yeah, I definitely put, like I didn’t do any work myself, I didn’t do any auditions or anything. I mean, it was an important time. My girlfriend came out from Hawaii.
She’s actually originally from Washington. Her job’s over there. So they were like, what do you mean she came from Hawaii to Washington?
It’s like a 50 degree difference in weather. It’s ridiculous. It’s like 75 over there and 25 over here.
But anyway, she came down and I got to meet her parents and she got to meet mine. And I think we both did a pretty good job of impressing them. It helps when you bring wine.
But yeah, it was a small investment for a big return, which is something we’re always talking about on the podcast, right?
Yeah, exactly. So we’re talking about the new year. What are some of your new year’s resolutions?
Well, I try not to have too many. I mean, they’ve got that one rule where it’s good to have between five to seven goals, whether it’s a resolution or you’re just trying to tackle some area of your life. You want to be realistic.
You want it to be attainable. So at least voiceover-related, I’m going to get into audiobooks this year. Excited about that.
It’s something that I’ve wanted to do for a very long time, but since I didn’t really have the space for it, my last apartment was extremely loud, and the only good times to record were between 11 p.m. and 3 a.m. Not very sustainable strategy, if you ask me.
You’ve never done any audiobooks?
I did do some volunteer projects for this one site called LibriVox or BookVoice. It’s all volunteer and public domain, and it’s a great way to test out if that’s something that you’re interested in because it’s all volunteer, and it’s a great way to practice editing and making sure that you sound decent enough to release your stuff out to the world.
Their service is actually for people who are site impaired, right?
Not necessarily. I mean, I know a number of students will use that because you might have certain works that are required reading in literature classes or history classes, but you’re right. People who do have visual impairments use it as well.
That’s because it’s all provided free of charge, right?
Yeah, it’s a free service. It’s all volunteer. They do take donations, but the only problem is that you’ll find people of all stripes there, like inability-wise and equipment-wise.
So sometimes you might not get the best reading that you’re looking for, but if you’re unhappy with it, you could re-record it yourself. They do allow multiple recordings of the same text.
Speaking as someone who has done quite a lot of audiobooks, it’s an entirely different beast. I hope you’re ready for it. I hope you know what you’re jumping into.
Talking with you, you’ve given me a much better idea, and I’m sure I’ll be begging you for help as I get my feet wet.
So any other resolutions?
Yes, I’m going to be doing another… or re-updating my commercial demo with the Global Voice Acting Academy. Very excited about that.
Oh, that’s big news.
Yeah, because the commercial demo is about three years old. It was good enough to get me some agents, but I’ve talked to a number of coaches and friends, and they’re like, yeah, maybe it doesn’t show off your range as well as it could. And I feel like I’ve grown as a voice actor in the last three years, so might as well create something that better reflects that ability.
What about your recording space?
Recording?
You mentioned you wanted to do something about that?
Yes, I did. I want a booth. To be a little bit more general, I want an official recording space.
Right now, we haven’t settled on exactly which room I’m going to use permanently in my current house. And I would just like to have a place that’s consistent and quiet and that I can use anytime I want, so without disturbing my family. And so that’s the big goal.
I know there’s a drum school in Seattle who’s offering basically a name your price for a vocal booth. So I’m going to talk to them. And it’s a four by six booth, which is a little bit larger than most people get.
So as long as we have a space for it, I might have a booth very soon. Who knows?
Oh, that’s cool. One thing I would caution is to make sure you can move the sucker, because some of those music schools or the booths that are used for hearing tests, like audiology booths, are insanely heavy and much more unwieldy than people think they are.
Because usually these structures are rectangular cubes, and I’ve heard that each side or each piece can be as much as 400 or 500 pounds.
Yeah, even a whisper room, each side is probably 120 to 150 pounds, and it’s a lot to lug around. That’s just on the smallest version.
Like Paul said, you might think that a booth will solve all of your problems, but you really have to put a lot of thought into this investment, because it is a lot of effort, it can be a lot of money to get one of these into your house. So that’s pretty much it for professional goals, is to get into audiobooks, redo that demo, and then get a booth or a better space. It might just be a matter of kind of finding the quietest room in the house and then treating the walls so it sounds good.
But that is the ultimate goal, is to have a dedicated space for my voice over endeavors. And other than that, it would be nice to lose 20 pounds, because I’ve been putting away the sweets and the ginger snaps and the pumpkin pie over the last couple of months.
Yeah, that does tend to happen.
Well, my girlfriend loves to eat too, and it’s nice to find someone that you don’t have to feel ashamed about that with. So, I mean, we like to eat good food.
I have some goals. I’m not big on resolutions, because like we’ve talked about, I tend to just sort of jump into things and go full speed. So when I get an idea in my head, I just go, whether it’s January 1st or June 1st.
So my immediate goals, though, are to try and get to more events. I made a point of really not going to any of the first year, because I didn’t think I was ready, either with physical materials, like I didn’t have any demos when I first started, and I didn’t think I was ready talent-wise to actually take on any clients. Should I actually get any referrals or clients at an event?
So I sort of put that off. But I’ve already been to MAVO at the end of last year, the Mid-Atlantic Voice Conference that we did the episode three from. And now I’ve committed to go to VoiceOver Atlanta, or VO Atlanta, which should be a great time.
Yeah, so it sounds like a great event. I’m really excited to go for the first time. I’m actually going to be volunteering there.
I talked to the organizer and founder, Gerald Griffith, and he agreed to have me come and work on the audiovisual services team led by Uncle Roy. So that should be a lot of fun. There’s a couple people that I know from different social media circles, and I’ve met in person.
Uncle Roy is going to be there. Ken Cornelius is going to be there. Scott Chambers and a few other people on the staff that I actually haven’t had a chance to meet yet, but I will once I’m there.
And that sounds like it’s going to be a great opportunity. So I want to thank Gerald for having me do that, and can’t wait to get there.
Yeah, it’s a fantastic conference. It was my first voiceover conference, and I feel you, because I remember they actually offer this wonderful scholarship every year. It just finished in the beginning of November, but they offer multiple scholarships for national, like within the US, voiceover artists, a children’s scholarship, and an international scholarship, which basically includes free registration to the event, and then a stipend for travel expenses.
And if I hadn’t had that at the time, I wouldn’t have been able to go. But once I went, it was such a life and career-changing experience that I have dedicated myself to going to at least VO Atlanta once a year as well, so in the future, because it’s a wonderful, wonderful conference.
So yeah, I’m really excited to go to VO Atlanta. Obviously, I’ll see you there. Sounds like some of us at least are going to eat a giant hamburger.
That’ll be a lot of fun.
I want to do that challenge. What is it called? They’ve got this eight-pound burger at a restaurant in Atlanta called The Grim Reaper, and it’s got all of my favorite things.
I mean, you’ve got Angus beef, you’ve got a whole bunch of cheese, bacon, like seven eggs, and a mountain of onion rings. I’m like, no lettuce, no vegetables, just what I love.
Our friend Lance Blair was saying it’s pretty far away from the airport, and the hotel is basically connected to the airport. I think it’s probably about a 40-minute train ride. But if there’s any way we can do it, I’m in.
I’m totally in. I’ve never done an eating challenge before, but anyone who’s watched me eat would probably think I could do it.
I don’t want to go off on too much of a tangent, but I actually have been in a few eating contests. Story for another day.
Very cool. Yeah, we’ll have to talk about tactics and stuff like that.
food. We’ll call that a tease. Maybe in a future episode, we’ll talk about food challenges.
Nice.
But right now, we’re going to introduce our new segment, Questionable Gear Purchase.
It’s a chance to talk about some of the things that we have purchased over the last couple of weeks and since our last episode, and why and how we think they might help our business.
Alright, I guess I’ll start because I did pick up a lot of stuff over the holidays. And my thing is, I don’t really ask people for gifts, especially nowadays, because some of the things I drool over are far too expensive for me to ask anyone to get. But I did find some great deals on some things I’ve been looking at for a while.
I got two big things recently, and that’s an interface called the SPL Creon. So SPL is short for Sound Pressure Labs. It’s a company out of Germany, and they’re famous for making very boutique, high-quality analog gear.
And they’ve recently made some new interfaces. They had this beastly desktop interface called the Crimson, which was a little bit overkill for me. It had some cool features, like two headphone outs and two instrument inputs and stuff like that.
But nothing people in our level of voiceover would really need. If you’re a music studio, yeah, it’d be great. But not what we need.
Anyways, recently they made sort of a slimmed-down version called the CREON, which still had a lot of the great features of the Crimson. And it’s kind of similar to, say, the Audient ID22, but it’s got a little bit different flavored preamps. I think it sounds quite nice.
And it’s got some additional features that I wanted, like a high-pass filter at a decent range. I believe it’s at 70 Hz, so I don’t have to worry about any of… any desirable frequencies in my voice being cut out by still being able to take out any rumble in my space or in my recordings.
So I’m really happy about that. And then I also got a new microphone, which is a Latvian mic called the JZJ1. It was actually recommended by our friend Lance Blair as sort of a CAD E100S killer.
And it’s a very light, very low-profile mic. It’s kind of like rectangular-shaped. Actually reminds me of like a foil razor or a stick of deodorant.
But it’s an attractive mic. I mean, you can tell it’s from a boutique retailer. And it’s got like a very, very low-profile shock mount that just kind of screws into the bottom of the mic It’s super low-profile, perfect for using in a closet booth setup.
And I would wholeheartedly recommend it to new talent. So Paul’s listened to some audio with it, too. And what do you think, Paul?
Yeah, it sounded great, especially in a well-treated space.
This is a sub-$300 mic, and I think it would be great for commercials or narration. So once again, that’s the JZ-J1. It’s about, like retail price is $400.
Occasionally, you’ll see it on Amazon for $279 if you’re a Prime member. But you will always find it at that price at B&H Photo Video. So if this is a mic you’re looking at, I would definitely recommend looking at it there.
And they’ve even got a few different colors. So they’ve got a gray version and a purple version. If you really care about color, you just might want to ask the manufacturer first to see what you’re getting.
What about you, Paul? Any questionable gear purchases?
Oh, boy, yeah. I had this idea that kind of came from you, actually. We were doing some recording, and you said something to the effect of, well, maybe that mic isn’t the most flattering on your voice, or that mic…
You could probably find a better mic. I think you might even have said the words, you deserve a better mic. I got that little sort of devil on my shoulder saying, You don’t need a new mic.
So then I had a meeting with George Widom about an unrelated issue, and he had a similar comment where we were talking about noise getting in the recordings, and he said, I think a lot of that is your mic because it kind of has a lot of self-noise. This is when I was using the AT875R, and I said, well, George says I need a new mic, so obviously I need a new mic. And I went insane and bought three.
Now, the way that happened was I was bidding on something on eBay and wasn’t really expecting it to go through. And it did, so I ended up with a Blue Baby Bottle and a Blue Reactor because both my bids went through at the same time. These are both mics by the company Blue.
It used to be a Latvian company. Now they’re… I think they’re made in the US now.
So yeah, they’re in the US, but a lot of their manufacturing is in China, I believe.
Okay. So anyway, I got this idea that… I always like to have two mics, and I got this idea that I wanted to have all the same mics because if you’re a golf fan of professional golf, you may know that Tiger Woods uses all Nike gloves.
Well, they pay him to do it.
Right. Or Michael Jordan wore all Nike equipment, had the Nike shoes. So I thought maybe that would be the same with mics.
I have actually heard of this happening where Pat Fraley, for instance, uses all Audio-Technica mics. So I thought, may I all be the blue mic guy? So I ended up with these two mics.
And I actually bought a third, which is the Blue Raspberry. And this was because I thought I needed something portable. So again, going crazy at once, I had the blue baby bottle, the blue reactor, and the Blue Raspberry.
And the Raspberry was pretty interesting because it’s a portable mic. It’s a little USB mic about the size of the Apogee mic that a lot of people think it compares favorably to. And if you’re interested in hearing a sample, I was featured along with the mic on the last VOBS show with Dan and George, where they played a sample of me doing a read on that mic because they wanted to review it.
And they said, well, send us a sample, and we’ll talk about it. So they did. So anyway, I bought all three of those.
Definitely questionable gear purchases because it turns out that they all kind of suck in my space on my voice.
Well, I mean, I was really hopeful about the Blue Raspberry because I mean, Blue, they made the Yeti, which even though it’s not like… My problems with the Yeti are all structural. It’s just a very large, ungainly mic.
You would never want to use it on like a boom arm or anything like that. It’s very heavy. It’s like two pounds.
And it’s just large. But it sounds wonderful. I used it for two years.
Or the pro version, the one that was USB and analog. I never actually hooked it up to analog because by that time I had a better XLR mic, but whatever, live and learn. And I never really liked the Apogee because yeah, it’s probably the most portable on the market.
But for 200 to 250 dollars, if you get the whole accessory kit, I just didn’t think it was worth the sound, especially if you went with something like the AT875R and a one channel interface like the Scarlett Solo or the Shure XTU or something like that. You’re going to get better quality and spend about the same amount.
And the Raspberry, it does sound good, and I wasn’t able to get some good results out of it with a lot of tweaking. The problem I had with actually all the Blue mics was that they all sounded pretty bad raw. I had to do a lot of processing and EQing to make them sound decent.
And when I did, they sounded great, but my goal really is to have something that sounds good right out of the box because I have a really decently treated space and it sounds good.
So that is what you want. I mean, it’s less work for you later. And Blue’s got a habit of sort of having a signature sound for all of their mics, because they intend them for different uses.
They have some more general all-purpose ones like the Bluebird or the Baby Bottle, but other than that, they really try to sort of cater it to specific uses. And with Voice Over, we don’t necessarily want that. We want something that is as true to source as possible.
Yeah. So in the end, I punted on all three of those mics. And this is why I came up with the name Questionable Gear Purchases for this segment, because in my case, it always is.
And what I decided to do is go back to basics and stick with what works. So the 875R sounded good in my space on my voice. It was lacking a little bit of low end.
So I picked up an 897, also an Audio Technica, an 8897, which is a longer barreled shotgun. Some people compare it favorably to the 416. I won’t go that far, but I’ve heard some talent even say that they use it in place of the 416 on the road for pickups.
And in my case, for whatever reason, the Audio Technica products sound really good. So maybe like Pat, I’ll be the Audio Technica guy. And that’s what I’m going with for now.
I’m using it right now on this podcast, actually.
Yeah, and I actually encourage our listeners to go to this episode and to listen back on our previous ones, where Paul was using his other mic, the 875R, and try and listen to the differences yourself. I personally like the change. I think it’s a definite upgrade.
It had the clarity and the accuracy of the 875, but it’s got a little bit more low end, and overall, it just sounds much smoother to me and really pleasant. So, congratulations, Paul.
Yeah, that’s exactly what I was looking for, so I guess mission accomplished.
Yeah, good for you.
Maybe I’ll stop buying things this week.
This week, yes. If you didn’t, then we wouldn’t have a segment.
Yeah, it’s all for the show. It’s all for you people.
Thank you. We appreciate it. And I love Paul’s attitude of never being…
I wouldn’t say never being satisfied, but always being willing to experiment. Me, I tend to buy mics and hold on to them. I don’t know why it’s so much harder for me to sell them than it is for him.
But different strokes to rule the world and all that.
There we go.
Speaking of questionable gear purchases, I’m sure we had a lot as we kind of went through our own personal and professional journeys with today’s topic, and that is studio acoustics, acoustics, acoustics.
Oh yeah.
So I figured Paul and I would just kind of go back and forth and talk about our own studio evolutions in regards to acoustics. So for our listeners who don’t know, acoustics is merely the science of sound. Voice over artists have a very specific need when it comes to acoustics.
We need a quiet space, and we need a non-reverberant space. Or dead space. A dead space, you know, like that sci-fi arcade game with the…
Anyways, we need a dead space that does not have echo. Otherwise, you get… It sounds bad.
The audio sounds bad, and we want something that sounds natural. It doesn’t sound like it was recorded in a kitchen or a bathroom. So acoustics, the room acoustics, are probably the most important aspect of your recording chain next to the mic and then the interface or preamp.
But it’s also the least understood and potentially the most expensive. So I feel like it’s one that a lot of beginning voice over artists shy away from. What do you think, Paul?
Yeah, I agree. And it’s sort of a misnomer because… Not misnomer, but…
Most talent go about it backwards, like you said. People look for the shiny new things. They want the mic.
But in actuality, if you have a great space, you almost need nothing else. I’ve actually done stuff in here with the iPhone, where in my now really great acoustic space, and it sounds better than probably a lot of people do with a professional microphone in a crappy room.
I know voice talent Mike Delgadio. He has a great… He goes by Booth Junkie on YouTube.
He’s got a great video comparing a $50 mic. I think it’s the AKG Perception. It’s no longer made with the Neumann TLM 103, which is like a $1000 mic.
But the whole point of that video was not a mic comparison, because he’s taking these mics into different spaces and proving that the space is more important than the mic itself.
It really is a way to make your life easier. Like you were talking about how it’s easier if you have a mic that sounds great raw. The same is true for your space.
The more you treat your space in the beginning, the less you have to do on the back end in processing or editing, because you won’t have to worry about making it sound better. It will already sound great if you have a good space.
Alright, so without further ado, let’s talk about the different incarnations of our studio space. And I actually want to start with what I’m currently using, because it’s most beneficial to you, our viewers. And what I’m in right now, I think I’ve mentioned this before, is a walking closet, which is honestly the best, least expensive way to get started with your first voiceover booth or voiceover space.
Can I just add that it’s your mom’s walking closet? I just love that.
I know. So now I have to deal with coming out of the closet jokes and your mama jokes. So thank you, Paul, for that.
But hey, I’ve got a supportive family, so I guess that’s what matters. But going back into the benefits of a walking closet, a closet is a good start because you’ve got… Chances are you’ve got a lot of clothing, you’ve got a lot of absorbent material to prevent your voice from bouncing on all the walls.
And a regular closet works well, too, if it’s deep enough or if it’s filled with enough clothing. Walking closet is even better because you have a little bit more space to move around. Gesturing is very important for authentic voiceover.
And you’re surrounded by absorbent materials.
You’re usually surrounded by drywall and probably some insulation behind that drywall.
Yeah, exactly. You have a little bit of isolation from the rest of the house, from the outside of the house as well. So your noise problems are reduced.
Because I’ve been using pretty directional microphones in here, like the 416 or the JZJ1, which is a medium, like a smaller diaphragm condenser. But honestly, it works with my large diaphragm condensers as well. I don’t even hear people outside or downstairs when I’m recording, so it’s great.
But I didn’t always have a closet, a good enough closet that I could use. When I was living in Japan, I had a… the closet was pitifully small.
It was like… I couldn’t take a shower in it. It was that small, you know?
It was so… I couldn’t fit in it. I couldn’t fit a mic stand or anything else in it, in my clothing.
So it just… it wasn’t a viable option. And it was just too close to the walls and the doors.
It just wouldn’t work. So at that time, there weren’t a whole lot of prefabricated portable acoustic solutions for talent. I knew I wanted something portable because I knew I wasn’t going to be in Japan forever.
So I wanted something that I could take with me to and from that country. And so at that time, Harlan Hogan had come out with a couple of different products called the Porterbooth. And this thing has gone through a couple of incarnations.
It used to be like a little folding laundry cube that he lined with acoustic foam. And then he actually patented it, and he made a larger version called the Porterbooth Pro, which is quite large and can fit a decent mic in your script in there as well. And then it’s even got a little blanket in it that comes out behind your head to improve the dampening effect.
But at the time, that was a little bit too expensive for me, so I went for the Porterbooth Plus, which is a nice rectangular shape. It was a little bit more portable. I could fit it in a suitcase or take it on carry-on.
Still a little ungainly for that. They recommend a lot of these products as carry-on, and honestly, I wouldn’t do that with a lot of them, just because they’re large and they’re pushing the boundaries of a lot of flights with that marketing misnomer. But anyways, so I used that for two years, and it worked out well.
I got paid with it. I used it for plenty of paid work. Before I got it properly set up, I submitted some files to Dan Leonard over from, at the time, EastWest Audio Body Shop, which is now VOBS, or Voice Over Body Shop.
Because he and George both have this sort of this place on their websites where you can send them audio samples and get a free consult if you’re willing to wait. And so I did. And then about a day later, Dan’s like, I can hear your computer fan.
I can hear your refrigerator. It sounds terrible. You’re too far from the mic.
At that time, I knew nothing about recording myself, and I was just happy to hear that I was able to push record and actually get a signal into the dang computer. So I took Dan’s advice. I moved the computer.
I would turn off the refrigerator while I record, and I can’t tell you how much food I’ve wasted because I forgot to turn that back on. It was just one of the sacrifices I was willing to make for my craft. So anyways, I used that for two years, and then finally we started getting some new products that became available, namely the Chaotica Eyeball from Canadian company Chaotica.
I was about to come home to the States, and I decided to pick up some new equipment. So I picked up some new mics, and I picked up the Chaotica Eyeball. And I thought it sounded a little bit more natural, a little less boxy than the Porta Booth Plus, but still a little reflective.
So what I did after that was I set up some baffling. By baffling, I mean laundry racks with futon mattresses folded over them. So I had these sort of three Gobos that I put on either side and behind me.
And with those improvements, I was able to get a better sound out of the Eyeball and the Porta Booth Plus when I used that. Because funny story, even though my new mic and the Eyeball and interface set up sounded better to me, when I sent some comparison files to one of my primary clients, he was like, I like the old one. Stay with that.
So even though you make incremental upgrades, your client’s opinion is the one that matters most, right?
Yeah, definitely. They’re the ones that are paying you. It’s funny you mentioned the baffling.
That can be a quick fix. Our friend Mike Norgard did the exact same thing recently with some plywood where he set it up behind his space because he doesn’t record in a booth. He records in a room in his house that he set up as a studio.
And while it sounded pretty good, he was having some reflection problems. So he put up some plywood and draped at first all of his old shirts over the back so you could see all the old flannel shirts that he probably wore when he was listening to Pearl Jam and Nirvana. And that did a great job of changing the sound completely, completely eliminating the echoing.
And I think since he’s upgraded to some foam. But just putting that wood behind him made a huge difference.
And that’s probably the biggest issue with these portable solutions, is that they don’t offer any dampening behind you, which makes a big impact on the final sound. So those were some of my earlier incarnations of my booth, if you can call it that. What about you, Paul?
What did you start with?
Well, I started pretty basic as well. Although I did have some knowledge of acoustics because I went to school for my undergrad degree in broadcasting, so I was on the radio station there and knew about studio setups, and I had a lot of classes about acoustics, both for radio and television, how to set up sound properly. So I had an idea, and what I basically did was go around my house and look for places that were the quietest.
And I also did a fair amount of research, watching online. I watched a lot of East West Audio Body Shop and a lot of Wittem’s Worlds and figured out all the information that George and Dan were putting out about how to find a good space to begin with. And I thought I had done that in my basement.
So I set up basically tent frame with PVC pipe. I went to the hardware store and bought enough PVC pipe to make a rectangle that was about 5 by 6. It was actually pretty big for the time.
And draped some regular old moving blankets around it that I got from Home Depot and Harbor Freight. And that sounded okay. I definitely got a decent sound.
But like you, I sent it away to Dan Leonard, and he said, it sounds not bad, but I can hear that car that drove by. And I was like, what car? I had no idea you could even hear that.
And I was in a basement below ground surrounded by concrete, so I thought I was pretty safe. But it turns out it wasn’t doing anything for sound blocking, which is what we were talking about. There’s a big difference between acoustics and soundproofing.
So I had done pretty well with the acoustics. Sounded pretty good, but nothing at all for soundproofing.
And that can be a big marketing misnomer because you’ll see it everywhere, even for non-audio gear, like soundproofed windows or soundproof doors or things like that. The truth is that it’s usually a much more… The best deterrent for sound is mass.
And we mean drywall, insulation, more drywall. Steel. Steel, rock, concrete, that kind of mass.
A blanket is not going to get rid of the traffic noise outside of your house. It might reduce it a little bit, but chances are it’s not going to be a significant thing. And it can be frustrating because people who don’t have the experience don’t know, don’t realize, that this soundproof blanket isn’t in fact going to create a silent space.
Well, I can say that it’s easy to fall into the marketing hype, because even someone who had a lot of experience, my next step was to get soundproofing blankets. So I was lucky that I acquired them for free, because the company vocalbooth2go.com that makes the producers’ choice acoustic blankets, they do call them acoustic blankets, but they do kind of pitch them as being soundproofing too. So they had an unfortunate event where their warehouse flooded, and it’s a local company to me.
So they’re giving away thousands of these damaged blankets that were soaked in this pond that overflowed and flooded into their warehouse. So I was able to pick up 18 of them for absolutely free. And I lugged them back to my house and washed them, and they came out pretty well.
I actually still use them now to line the inside of my whisper room.
I think they’re great. I love Vocalboot2go’s little story because this was some… Paul had mentioned that he had picked up moving blankets from other companies before, and that’s where Vocalboot2go got their start, was this warehouse of moving blankets.
And then he noticed the owner, I believe his name is Ajil Adelev. Apologies, Ajil, if I mispronounce that. But he noticed that a lot of musicians and producers and videographers were purchasing his blankets.
And so he’s like, what are you guys using these for? And they’re like, oh, they’re very absorbent material that’s perfect for movie sets or for Vocalboots or musicians or whatever to help them from disturbing their neighbors and improve their acoustics. So he’s like, oh, OK, well, how can I improve it for that?
And so he took their notes. He made them easier to hang by adding grommets in them. He doubled the material that’s used in the blankets so they’re even more absorbent.
And eventually he started making prefabricated booths so that were sort of already in a rectangular shape so that you could put it onto a frame that you made yourself or one that he sells. I thought that was a really creative business model, and I admire him a lot for it.
Yeah, so to get those blankets was my next step, and I put them on my existing PVC frame, and I thought that would help with some of the sound blocking. And it didn’t. Not that it should be a surprise to anyone by now, but it didn’t block any more of the sound.
And I have a big problem with sound blocking because I have a huge four-lane highway behind my house. The big retaining wall actually runs through my backyard. So it’s great for privacy.
I don’t have to worry about any new development behind my house, but it can be a little cumbersome for recording. So I set up this booth, and it actually improved the sound to where I was… I was getting a lot of work and doing pretty well, but I had the issue where I could only record at a certain time, similar to what you were talking about.
In addition to the sound outside, I have a lot of sound at least in my recordings inside because I have a family with three kids and a dog. As I mentioned, I was in the basement, so every time I was recording, I would hear this. The little pitter-patter of little feet all over the ceiling.
And my family really quickly got sick of me yelling from below them in the basement, hey, I’m trying to record, keep it down up there. In addition to that, I had all the other household things like the refrigerator and the air conditioning. There were several times where I had to turn off the air conditioning or the heat because I live on the East Coast, and I would come upstairs from bed and I couldn’t either be freezing or dying of heat because I forgot to turn the HVAC unit back on.
Whoops. So I got tired of that stuff real quick, and that’s when I started doing some more shopping. So I’ll get to what I did next after you tell us what you did next.
Okay, so at this point, like I said, I’ve been using a lot of the portable solutions because that’s all I could really do at the time. But I was always like Paul, I was always on the lookout for a better solution. So I got this great booth from this great guy named Tim Page.
He’s a voice over talent in New York. You can find him at timthepage.com. He’s also got two really nice podcasts going.
He’s got Conversion Cast, which is sort of a marketing podcast. And then he’s got my favorite one, Getting Into Comics. So he and I are both big Marvel Comics fans.
And he wanted to create a podcast that was accessible, not, I like to call it snobnoxious when it comes to comics. And just to make the whole thing really less intimidating for people who might get interested because of all of the movies that we have come, or in media we have coming out now, but don’t really know where to get started with a character that they’re interested in. So once again, that’s Getting Into Comics.
And if you want to hire Tim, you can find him over at timthepage.com So thanks a lot, Tim. You really, you made a big impact on my VO career. And I wish you nothing but the best in your voice over endeavors, too.
While I had entertained ideas of just getting a booth in Japan, I just knew I wasn’t, the expense wasn’t worth it, and I knew I wasn’t going to be there forever. So I got this great booth from this great guy named Tim Page, and he was selling it for a great price. And even with shipping, I still, or keep in mind, shipping from America to Japan, I still saved a great deal, and probably better than if I had gone new from the company.
But anyways, about six weeks later, I get this huge duffel bag in the mail, and then this is what’s called the hanging acoustic booth. So you’ve got this prefabricated rectangular shape of blankets, and then sort of like a half frame, because this thing is originally meant to be suspended from either a ceiling or just a height. So in the marketing materials, they have it in a warehouse suspended between two industrial ladders and a plank.
Not the most realistic setup, but I guess whatever you have available. But anyways, I found out very quickly that that wouldn’t work out for me, and so I went to the hardware store and then bought some. They didn’t have PVC there for some reason, so I got these stainless steel pipes, which I thought were actually pretty nice.
I mean, they’re a little bit narrower than the PVC pipes were, and I’m sure they’re much stronger. So I made sort of a shower frame, a tall rectangular frame out of that, threw the booth on top, hooked up my mic and interface, and then listened to the angels sing, because it was literally one of those hallelujah kind of moments.
That was a clever setup, too. I actually talked to Adele from vocalbooth2go.com, and he liked your setup because he saw it in one of your reviews, and he said, oh, it’s really clever what he did.
Yeah, you can find that over on YouTube. Listening back now, it sounds fine on computer speakers, but I was using the Apogee mic, and it doesn’t quite sound as great as I’d like looking back, but too late now. But yeah, I mean, that boot did not come with its own frame.
It had sort of a half frame just to help it maintain its shape when it’s suspended. But other than that, yeah, and it wasn’t too difficult to make. So I mean, that’s a popular solution for a lot of talent of all levels and experience who’ve got a quiet enough space but just have reflection issues.
So they’ll just make those little shower booths with a PVC frame pipe, or excuse me, a PVC frame, and then moving blankets, either something prefabricated or just individual blankets made or thrown over the frame.
Yeah, they can work great if you have one, limited recording to do, and two, no other issues to contend with that are going to interfere with your sound. If you live alone in an apartment like you were at the time, probably a great solution. So in my case, I knew really quickly that I wasn’t going to be able to get much done if I didn’t do something about sound blocking or sound isolation, as we call it.
So my next jump was to a booth almost right away. I started shopping around. I knew I didn’t have a lot of capital spent on a new booth.
Something like a whisper room new can cost minimum $5,000. That wasn’t happening right away, so I looked on Craigslist and eBay, and I found pretty quickly a drum shield locally on Craigslist. And that is something they use for live performances to encapsulate a drummer from the rest of the band.
So the drummer doesn’t make the guitarist’s ears bleed while they’re playing on stage. It’s used a lot in churches and other small venues where there’s live performances going on every day or every week. So when they typically come, they have a plexiglass front and then these large sound-absorbing baffles in the back.
So what I did was I got one of the large ones. It was a six by seven or six by eight feet. But knowing that the plexiglass would still have some sound leaking through, I decided to just not use that at all, or at least not in the inside of the booth.
And I took just the absorbing panels and made them into a smaller space. So you can imagine I had one of the side pieces as a floor, two more as a roof, and then the rest surrounding me in a sort of hexagon frame. And then I took the existing blankets I had from vocalbooth2go.com and wrapped those around the plexiglass and put that around for extra absorption.
And it sounded pretty darn good. I sent that to George Whitham to review, and he said it sounds great, like the best sound you’ve ever had. So stick with that, which of course did not happen.
But what did you call that?
It sounded great.
I really liked your little playful name for that.
Oh, right. I called it Frankenbooth because I was using it not for its intended purpose. And as I mentioned, normally it’s a 6×8 booth.
I had it collapse to a 3×3.2. I measured it one time just to laugh with some fellow talent about basically how I was working in a coffin. And it also was only six maybe feet, two inches high, and I’m six feet even.
So if I stood up straight, my head would hit the roof. So it wasn’t an ideal space for a lot of reasons. And on the outside, it looked like something out of a horror movie.
That’s why I call it a Frankenbooth.
It was made from the parts of deceased booths.
Right. But I tell you what, it sounded fantastic.
It did.
I actually got the hint from fellow talent Mike Breton because he had the same booth or the same company and used it to great effect. And I knew that it sounded good, but there were some other issues that maybe keep looking eventually.
So what issues are we talking about here? Is it still an isolation problem?
Partially isolation, but more actually just physical space. I couldn’t take being in such a confined space anymore. So I started to look for something that was more traditional square or rectangle.
Most people tell you that a square shape is bad for resonant waves bouncing back and forth, but there are a number of booths that are set up in a 4×4 fashion. So they also tend to be the cheapest. So I started to look around a little bit more and found a great deal on a vocal booth to go.
At this point, we sound like shills for this company, but I do like their products. I found a great deal on their Sound Proofer booth, which is similar to what you use, the acoustic booth, but an outside layer of mass-loaded vinyl, which helps us to block sound. And Sound Proofer was a bit of a misnomer.
It didn’t block everything. I got it here, and there was a really funny story around how that happened. I actually found it on Craigslist and contacted the seller.
We agreed to buy it. And while I was looking to sell Frankenbooth, because I didn’t need it anymore, somebody contacted me off of Craigslist and said that he thought the booth I was selling was one that he had previously owned. He said, basically, I sold this booth about a year ago, and now I need to get it back.
I think it’s mine that you’re selling. I thought, this is really weird.
What are the chances?
At first, I thought the guy was just a sociopath. You hear horrible stories about Craigslist.
Well, you’re still alive.
So he asked me for my phone number, and he called me, and he started telling me about his family and how it was the only way he could keep his wife happy, because he’s a foster parent of disabled children. And I was like, oh my God, he’s laying on her so thick, it’s gotta be a scam. But I decided I was gonna at least listen to him.
And when he described it, he said that he was in the military, or still is in the military, career military guy, and he was supposed to be shipped out to Texas. And that’s when he sold the booth because he was gonna clear all the stuff out of the house, and he was starting to put stuff in boxes, and then his orders were canceled. So he was still stationed here in Maryland.
And then he said, well, I need my booth back because he’s a drummer. So he was actually using the drum shield for drumming. And he basically said, I need my booth back to keep my Saturday when I’m trying to practice and also keep the family happy.
And I felt bad for him. We talked a little bit more. And while I was trying to sell Frankenbooth and also purchasing the Soundproofer booth, I found a whisper room also on Craigslist in New York, New York City.
So I bought that too, or at least committed to buy it. So now I had, all in the same week, I had Frankenbooth in the house. I committed to buy the Soundproofer booth and the whisper room at the same time.
So I came up with this crazy idea to talk to the gentleman that was buying Frankenbooth back. I said, look, I’ve got myself into a real pickle. I’m on the hook for these two booths now.
And I don’t know what I’m going to do. But I’ll tell you what, I’ll sell you Frankenbooth back if you drive to New York and get the Soundproofer booth for me and bring it back here. So he did.
One Sunday, he drove to New York City, came to my house, I gave him the old Drumperfect booth back, he gave me the Soundproofer booth, and everybody was happy. And then that same week, I went back to New York City myself and picked up the whisper room out of a New York City apartment, which is really interesting.
And it’s crazy because I happened to be at New York at the time. One of my voice over clients happens to be in a wheelchair. He actually asked me to wheel him around the city because it can be quite exhausting for someone to try and navigate all of those, like the pockmarked streets in a wheelchair.
So I was happy to help out. And Paul mentioned that he was going to be there, so we actually got to meet in person for the first time.
Yeah, for a very short time. I was double parked on a city street in Chelsea with a giant moving van and only had time for coffee, and not even entire coffee.
You look so exhausted. The man was just covered in sweat. He’s just like, oh, God, thank you.
I’m so glad that’s done with.
That brings me back to a point we were talking about before. If you’re going to get a booth, make sure you know what the heck you’re getting into, because they are behemoths. So I’m a reasonably in shape young man, well, middle-aged man at this point.
And the guy I bought the booth from was thankfully slightly younger and probably in better shape. And it still was hard to move the sucker. We had to get down the hall out of the third-story apartment.
And because there’s only one elevator in the apartment, we took each piece and basically stacked against the wall by the elevator, hoping nobody would steal it in the meantime. Then we’d run back to the room, bring the other piece out, then we stuck all the pieces in the elevator, and then held the elevator door open while we stuck all these pieces. So a whisper room has four sides, a roof, this one has a caster piece, so seven pieces all together.
And each one weighs probably 150 pounds, and they’re also seven and a half feet high. So it was a real bear to get in this elevator. When we got to the bottom, let me tell you, all the rest of his neighbors were pissed.
They were all waiting on the street in a line just glaring at us. So again, make sure you know what you’re getting into when you’re moving these things, because they can be a bear.
Yeah. How much did you… You said it was like over 100 pounds for each piece?
I’m estimating each one is about 150.
Good Lord.
At least the sides. Yeah, it’s pretty crazy.
Yeah, you’re buying a small room, folks.
What’s that?
I said, you’re buying a small room.
More or less. That brings me back to my whole reason for looking. Now that I have it here, I set it up and it’s like a whole new world.
Basically, I have room above my head. I have room to wave my arms around. I’m able to stand up and talk while…
Keep talking.
What was that?
That was a whole new world.
Oh, sorry. I didn’t get the joke. I was just in my own world, my whole new world.
Anyway, it’s glorious to be able to stand and move around without hitting my shoulders or head on the sides of the booth. So it does help a lot. And once I traded it right, it does sound great.
And I just wanted to talk a little bit now. I don’t want anyone to think that that has to be… that a whisper room or a room within a room has to be your first solution.
I mean, if you can afford it, and you’ve already proved that you’ve got the talent, by all means. But try the closet first. See if you can save five grand, you know?
Yeah, it’s all about your needs, though. In my case, I needed it to block out the kids, because my kids do not leave me alone if I’m not locked in this booth. They’re always asking me for snacks and always asking me to help them with homework or play video games.
So I needed the isolation, but you may not.
And when you get started, necessity is the mother of invention. You take whatever materials you have available and you make the best sounds you can. But if VO works out for you, then you can look into upgrades and then figure and eventually stop when you find the ideal solution for you.
Yeah, and try and reuse materials. I’m obviously not big on keeping old mics, but I do keep everything else. The booth I have now, I treated it with the blankets that I got for free.
I don’t have any foam on the walls, except for the one piece that came with the whisper room. I cut it in half and stuck it on the roof and on the door. But instead of buying thousands of dollars worth of foam for the walls, I just took the Producers Choice blankets and hung them by the grommets on some 3M command strip hooks.
And they stay up there, and almost by themselves, they make it sound great. I did have to add some bass traps, but other than that, the blankets do all the trick and stuff I already had.
And just backing up a little bit, for people who don’t know what bass traps are, so when you have a small enclosed space like a booth or a closet, you can get a buildup of bass frequencies because they’re actually larger and there’s more space in between the individual wavelengths than in higher frequencies. So it can take a lot more mass and a lot more material to really knock out those frequencies and prevent them from being recorded. Because if they are recorded, what you’ll get is sort of an unnatural boominess or some unpleasant frequencies to your voice.
Right now I’m getting really close to the mic to try and simulate that. But the point is you get a less natural sound and a less pleasant one because you’ve got some extra boom in the recording. And so what exactly did you use for your bass traps, Paul?
I thought you had a pretty ingenious solution for that.
Right, yeah. Early on in Frankenbooth, I got a tip that was from Ethan Weiner, or Weiner, I’m not sure how to pronounce his name. He’s on Recording Hacks, one of the moderators there, and he suggested using recycled denim insulation.
It’s called Ultratouch, at least it’s the only brand I’m aware of. And he suggested just using it the way it is, wrapped up in a shrink wrap. The ones I have are in rolls that I believe are 48 inches long when you stretch them out.
But rolled up, they’re just like a giant bath towel, and they come in a pack of six. At least I bought a case that was a pack of six. I think it cost me 60 bucks for the whole thing.
It wasn’t in stock. I had to order it to the Home Depot store, but they did deliver it there, and I was able to pick it up. And all I did was put some Velcro on the outside of the shrink wrapped rolls and pluck them up on the roof of the booth.
And in the Frankie booth, I had four all the way around the roof, and that was all I needed. It sounded great. In the whisper room, I reused those, and I put two on the roof, two in each corner.
So six total again, two on the roof, two in each corner. And they do a great job almost by themselves.
That’s great. And they’re lightweight, and it’s easy to install. And you said you spent 60 bucks on six?
Yeah.
Wow. Because some of these purpose built bass traps, which are usually made out of acoustic foam or some kind of recycled denim material placed in a wooden frame, they can be $40, $50 and up for one. So I thought that was a great solution.
Another popular bass trap is the Leonard corner bass traps.
Oh, the Leonard bass traps from Oralex. That’s right.
Yeah, and I think each of those is $60 apiece.
Wow.
So I did buy some knockoffs of those. I don’t remember the company. They were from Amazon.
I used the Whistram. I bought four of those to assist with the Ultratouch. But that’s really it in the boot along with the blankets.
Very cool.
Again, use the materials you already have on hand if possible. If you have some quilts you’re not using, those would probably do great to absorb sound.
Big coats, sweaters. The more material, the better, really. As far as closets go, I don’t know anyone who had too much clothing that had a detrimental effect on their sound.
Yeah, I’ve read people talking about just having the clothes draped around them while they’re speaking, and it does work. I personally, on the road, have taken one of the extra producer’s choice blankets and just put it over my head like a teepee, and it does a good enough job to absorb the sound with a portable mic.
And personally, I really like… I just like the effect that blankets have over foam for acoustic treatment, because it’s sort of like a unitasker, sometimes some of these products are treated with chemicals that can actually have off-gassing in a small space, so that could be unhealthy for you. And I just think you get a much more natural sound that’s easier to install with either some blankets from Vocalboot to go.
I know Audimute is another popular one. James Arnold Taylor sings their praises all the time. And there’s definitely a lot of solutions that you can look at before you kind of…
before you jump on the big names and the big brands. Okay, I think that wraps up Paul and my personal journeys with acoustics. But before we go today, I wanted to sweeten the deal by offering you, our listeners, a potential giveaway.
So I am giving away my Harlan Hogan Porter Booth Plus. It is… I will say it is slightly used.
There’s a little tear in one of the acoustic foams, but it works quite well. And this thing new would have been $260 for the carrying case and the booth itself. So you can either use it as a beginner booth, as a travel setup, or as additional acoustic treatment in what you’re already using.
So this is my gift to you, our listeners. And if you are interested in this Porter Booth Plus, all you have to do is to like our Facebook page, that is The VO Meter Facebook page. And then just a short story establishing your need.
How would this be helpful to you? Or a funny acoustic story of your own?
Yeah, you can do that either on the Facebook page, or leave us a comment on the VO Meter Podbean website itself under the comments section. Either way is fine. We’ll see it, and thanks for listening.
Thank you very much. Yeah, I’m excited to see some of your entries. So I’m Sean Daeley for The VO Meter with co-host Paul Stefano.
Thank you very much for listening, and good luck on winning that Porter Booth Plus.
Bye everybody. See you next time.
Thanks for listening to The VO Meter. Measuring Your Voice Over Progress. To follow alon